Well, let's take Whedon's definition of a soul and go from there.

::laughs hysterically forever::

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I don't see why the existence of God should imply, say, that the river over there has a soul, or that fairies exist, or that I can cast spells, or any of a number of other supernatural concepts. Accepting God doesn't, to me, even have to open the door to things like that.

Was your original question meant regarding particular supernatural things, or any supernatural thing? Accepting that a deity exists, means accepting that which is beyond the material world, which I think makes it illogical to rule out everything except that one deity of your choice. It doesn't have to follow that you'd care about the other supernatural entities, worship them, or even know about them, or believe in every single supernatural entity that has occured to humanity at one time or another, but I don't see how you'd rule out the existence of all other supernatural things except for your deity.

At what point are you just choosing not to call it a soul?

How do you define a soul? That's a good place to start.

That's what I was asking--how a soul differs from the energy?

Well, let's take Whedon's definition of a soul and go from there.

Odd days of the week, or even?

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Also, erika, youth always gets a pass. The ones who get up my nose are the people who are purportedly seriously, deeply grown-up and still go on like that. Dudes, when the people who agree with you are telling you to STFU, it's time to carefully ponder how you're saying what you're saying.

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Odd days of the week, or even?

The days when Logan is being a jackass.

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Accepting that a deity exists, means accepting that which is beyond the material world

How material are gamma waves? Dark matter? Black holes? Complex numbers? I think everyone believes in things they will never be able to validate their own selves, but takes the word of someone else on. The frameworks differ.

As for the supernatural...what is it? I've seen people (including here) deny the existence of the supernatural, positing that it's all natural. What's supernatural today may be science tomorrow, should someone quantify and reproducibly prove it.

Just like a soul, it's very easy for me to say my belief system allows this and obviously disallows that, and we're doing nothing but having a semantic dance.

Look at the Wikipedia entry for soul. Which one do you mean? Maybe juliana meant spirit.

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What's supernatural today may be science tomorrow, should someone quantify and reproducibly prove it.

Yes. And accepting the unproven ghosts and not accepting the unproven God is inconsistent if "unproven" is your standard.

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And accepting the unproven ghosts and not accepting the unproven God is inconsistent if "unproven" is your standard.

But you're using unproven as the standard. The atheist ghost-believer may have all the reasons they require to believe in ghosts, and all the reasons they require to disbelieve in God.

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This is for the sake of discussion. I'm an atheist and I don't belief in ghosts, faeries or other supernatural entities. But someone could (say) be convinced either by personal experience or some other evidence that ghosts exists, without having run into similar evidence that convinces them that deities exist. (Deities being, if nothing else, a great deal more powerful than ghosts.) On similar grounds, one could believe in elves, dryads, fauns without believing in deities. Or in reverse one could believe in god, even a classic Judeo-Christian god, and not believe in ghosts, because you conclude god does not let the dead return to earth before the last judgement. In short - given the right premises, to believe in ghosts withut believing in deities are vice-versa is not illogical - especially for people who have had mystical experience. That is I know people who believe in Christianity because they claim to have personally experience the presesence of Christ in their lives. I am not convinced, but given their experience I totally get why they would believe in Christ and not in ghosts. Similarly there are probably people who have personally experienced what they though were contacts with the dead, but not contact with Christ or other deities. I can see why they believe in ghosts but not gods. If my opinion is that both experiences are explained by brain chemistry rather than anything in the larger experience, I don't say so to the people who tell me they have been through one or the other.

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I think everyone believes in things they will never be able to validate their own selves, but takes the word of someone else on. The frameworks differ.

Absolutely. That's how we get most of our understanding. In a lot of everyday things, we're later able to verify it for ourselves, but there's so much truth we come to know about because experts prove it. My response was based on how strongly you worded your question. Trudy said:

It seems to me that once you believe in the supernatural it seems silly to declare God an impossibility.

In reply, you asked:

Is the reverse true? I mean, can you believe in God and be absolutely sure other portions of the supernatural don't exist?

I can't see being absolutely sure no other portions of the supernatural exist. For all I know, it could be true, but there all bald and naked, the I don't understand the absolute conviction as one coming from logic.

Look at the Wikipedia entry for soul. Which one do you mean? Maybe juliana meant spirit.

That's what I was trying to find out--what she meant. What's the line between soul and ghost-of-the-deceased-as-residual energy? If I asked this in some wrong way, I'm blind to it, and I apologize.

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Saying, belief in ghosts implies belief in the supernatural, and god is supernatural, therefore it makes no sense to deny god, doesn't follow for me. Belief in ghosts implies nothing but a belief that something exists which we call ghosts.

I believe in ghosts. I've seen them. I don't know what they are. Calling them "souls of the departed" is handy, and may even be true, but it's no more correct than calling them "residual bits of energy". Which also may be true, or not. I don't know enough to say what they are. I also don't know what god is. I don't see why I can't believe in ghosts without believing in god.

I believe in a Divine Presence in the universe, but when people ask if I believe in God, I usually say no. Because I don't want to be mistaken for a believer in any particular God or a follower of any particular religion. I don't want that, simply because I'm not one, and I dislike being misunderstood. I believe that the universe is god, and everything in it is god, and god is everywhere, everywhen, and everywhat. I believe god is the Divine Consciousness that is this universe, much as I am the consciousness that is this person. (Obviously, not an exact parallel. And obviously, god's consciousness is nothing like mine.) After I accepted that I wasn't ever going to be a Christian, I looked for many years for a religion that fit me, or at least a handy label to define myself to others. The best I found is "pantheist". And that's hardly helpful, because most people have never heard of it!

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