No motherfucking shit.
So there is something I can do, besides scream like a woman?
Wesley ,'Chosen'
The Minearverse 5: Closer to the Earth, Further from the Ax
[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls, The Inside and Drive), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath.
Aims - Aug 15, 2006 9:38:50 am PDT #808 of 10001
Shit's all sorts of different now.
Strega - Aug 15, 2006 9:42:13 am PDT #809 of 10001
Cindy, I was using SF for speculative fiction, since I find it difficult to define the line between science fiction and fantasy. I mean, sometimes it's easy to say a story is one or the other, but if the mysterious, big-eyed humanoid creatures messing with people are fairies, it's fantasy, and if they're aliens, it's science fiction. There's a David Brin story where they're both, or possibly neither. Is it sci-fi or fantasy?
The show, as it airs, seems perfectly respectful to the SF fan.I may not understand what it means to say a show should respect SF fans. What are shows that aren't properly respectful?
Aims - Aug 15, 2006 9:43:40 am PDT #810 of 10001
Shit's all sorts of different now.
Star Trek: Enterprise
§ ita § - Aug 15, 2006 9:47:02 am PDT #811 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
What are shows that aren't properly respectful?
A show that mocked them, which can certainly happen. Also ST:Enterprise.
No...I do think it's perfectly possible to alienate large chunks of a group that may even comprise parts of your target audience by jacking with things they hold dear.
OG fans might have been jacked with, but nothing in the show looks, like, say...the worst of Dark Angel which felt like it was treating me like a moron, despite my love of chick in tight clothes kicking ass stuff.
Ailleann - Aug 15, 2006 9:47:06 am PDT #812 of 10001
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda
Is there an Uncanny Valley of sci-fi? If it's close enough to [insert worldview here], then it's not sci-fi?
Tom Scola - Aug 15, 2006 9:49:11 am PDT #813 of 10001
Mr. Scola’s wardrobe by Botany 500
An infamous example is V: The Series.
After the success of both miniseries, it was decided that the show would have to have appeal beyond the core sci-fi fan, and assumed that the core fans would watch no matter what, so they brought in a bunch of soap opera writers to write it.
Strega - Aug 15, 2006 9:58:31 am PDT #814 of 10001
But is that actually insulting to SF fans in particular, or just insulting to its audience the way that all bad TV is? I was working off of "It has to be respectful to SF fans but welcoming to casual viewers." That sounded like it meant something more specific than "it should be good." CaBil, can you clarify?
However bad Enterprise was, it lasted four years. Largely, if not entirely, because of SF fans.
Dana - Aug 15, 2006 10:23:09 am PDT #815 of 10001
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."
I think with Enterprise, you could make the argument that it was not respectful to *Trek fans*, rather than sci-fi fans as a whole. I mean, I figure it's generally the Trek fans who will care when a show stomps all over thirty years of canon.
And yet, I was one of the ones who kept watching Enterprise, and I was rewarded when they brought Manny Coto in and the show stopped sucking.
I am much more likely to be loyal to an actor (or a Tim-like person) than to a genre, I think, but I feel like that's partly influenced by how I participate in fandom.
Simon - Aug 15, 2006 10:45:26 am PDT #816 of 10001
Seasons 3 and 4 were pretty decent and the second last episode of Enterprise was one of the best Trek episodes of any series. Andromeda on the other hand, that's a different kettle of fish.
Topic!Cindy - Aug 15, 2006 10:48:26 am PDT #817 of 10001
What is even happening?
I find it difficult to define the line between science fiction and fantasy. I mean, sometimes it's easy to say a story is one or the other, but if the mysterious, big-eyed humanoid creatures messing with people are fairies, it's fantasy, and if they're aliens, it's science fiction. There's a David Brin story where they're both, or possibly neither. Is it sci-fi or fantasy?It's the progenitor of Lost. Seriously, I agree. I don't think I've heard the term "speculative fiction" before. At least, it hasn't stuck with me.