That works for me too; movies like Saw and Turistas are supposed to be set in the real world, and that's just, as Joss said somewhere, "torture porn". They probably appeal to the same people who watch those Faces of Death videos, which bother me deeply.

I'm not a fan of faces of death, but damn, do I love torture porn. Show me a guy sawing his own leg off to escape being devoured alive by mutant rats, and I'll show you a bucket o' popcorn and a happy Allyson.

Sloth

Oh, Cindy, I know. I just took them as a jumping-off place to explore my own thoughts.

A lot of times, I word my opinions more forcefully or broadly than I mean to, so I just wanted to make sure.

I look forward to seeing Dexter. I want to see if it bothers me, and how. I tend to like things that give me shudders and creep me out (as opposed to squicking me). I'm intrigued by the idea of a (fictional) serial killer who isn't traumatized and severely fucked-up, just -- what, a well-adjusted sociopath?

In part, with Dexter, I'm afraid I'll like him, and I don't actually want to do that. I think I have too many internal rules, borders and end zones.

The only thing that bothered me about Se7en was the final death. It didn't follow the pattern. It was just there for shock value.

Was the final death Gwyneth's? The head in the box, right? How did it not follow the pattern?

I'm intrigued by the idea of a (fictional) serial killer who isn't traumatized and severely fucked-up, just -- what, a well-adjusted sociopath?

Heh. Basically. We get flashbacks to his childhood that sort of explain how he became who he is, and there is some trauma in his past, of course, because serial killers don't just come from nowhere, but it's...well, it's not like your usual stuff. I'm so thankful he wasn't abused in any way, because that's always the answer. Except here.

Dexter is sort of like Pinocchio. He wants to be a real boy.

In part, with Dexter, I'm afraid I'll like him, and I don't actually want to do that.

Heh. You can try not to like him. I suppose it's possible. But the show is so great precisely because you do end up liking him. Hell, rooting for him.

The only thing that bothered me about Se7en was the final death. It didn't follow the pattern. It was just there for shock value.

It works, though.

I had exactly the same response to Becky as ita describes. Also, I just didn't believe in her, emphasis with her, associate with her or understand her actions. I also thought she was dumb, because of her actions. That said, as the series progressed I thought that improved a lot, and the final episode really nailed her as a likeable character for me.

With regards to The Inside and Saw - I don't see how these differ much in terms of reality. They're both pretty similar settings in many ways. Saw (the first one) is pretty emotionally fucked up. You rarely actually see anything in it (in fact, I'm not sure if you see anything at all). It does, however, follow the emotional side of the 'victims', not the 'bad guy', though. I haven't seen the sequels, but I believe they are rubbish.

Egh, torture porn. I understand how people can get into it, that doesn't bother me, but seeing it would stick on my brain for years.

Anyhoo, the "(fictional) serial killer who isn't traumatized and severely fucked-up, just -- what, a well-adjusted sociopath" is kind of a staple-- I think you could arguably say it about Angelus, Tony Soprano, Omar from The Wire, and probably dozens of others from shows in the last 15 years with a season-long villain.

The head in the box, right?

Step one . . .

bwah

Did anyone else think that Peter Coyote looks like P.J. O'Rourke whilst watching The Inside? Really uncanny resemblance. But to actually add something mentionful to this convo, Brian Cox's Lecktor would have fitted well into the world of The Inside.

Was the final death Gwyneth's? The head in the box, right? How did it not follow the pattern?

It didn't because it wasn't his established pattern. Up until then, he had been punishing the "sinners" directly, not hurting someone else to get to them. Didn't work for me. I couldn't buy that he'd kill an innocent person.

I thought both the way Rebecca was written and the way she was acted were spot on, for someone with that kind of history.

With regards to The Inside and Saw - I don't see how these differ much in terms of reality. They're both pretty similar settings in many ways. Saw (the first one) is pretty emotionally fucked up.

I really shouldn't have used Saw (or Turistas) as an example, because I've haven't seen more than a few minutes of it. I couldn't think of another example, though. Sorry. I don't know why I like The Inside. I just do.