If shows like L&O-SVU where the victim gets raped and mutilated every episode isn't "too dark" for the average viewer, what is? I think The Inside was too dark because of the themes it explored. We're used to rape and torture and murder now, thanks to "ripped from the headlines" shows and the news itself. But The Inside dealt with things that "go too far" for the average viewer, I believe: women who kill babies, young girls kidnapped and abused who survive obviously damaged (we're supposed to overcome), children who murder, people who mutilate themselves to death... People aren't used to hearing about things like that, and they don't want to think about them. It's weird that a world that includes rape, murder, and torture could be insular and safe.

People can identify with the victims; that's scary but safe because it doesn't change their world - it's a scary world, but we're safe. But they don't want to explore the inside of dangerous, crazy people. They're uncomfortable with the reality of the person who outwardly seems normal but is very very not, and The Inside was about almost nothing else. What I loved about The Inside was how it turned all the usual expectations upside down, how it went to the taboo places that aren't supposed to exist, and I think that's exactly what made many other people flee.

Just thinking "out loud". Me, I loved every single episode, and found none of them too dark, possibly because there weren't any themes I hadn't already thought about, so they didn't push me out of my comfort zone. So maybe I'm not really different from the average viewer, I just have a higher tolerance for dark. Things like Saw, for example? Over the bar, for me.

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So, it's Crimes Against Hairy Gay Men now?

You mean all gay men don't wax? The media has misled me. I feel so...much the same as I did a moment ago.

Some of the characters and stories were on the too dark side for me, for a TV show. In a movie, I'd be fine with it. Why? Not sure off hand.

I know what you mean, Kevin. I'm the same way, maybe because a movie is more finite.

Was it written by John Irving?

Did he write Grisly Addams?

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What I loved about The Inside was that it was very rarely a whodunit. The show frequently showed us who the Bad Guy was, and the episode was more about understanding the villain and why they did what they did than trying to solve the crime. I think there are other shows that do and have done this, but it's rare among procedurals.

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I'd say that the darkness of The Inside was both the kinds of murders--always serial murder (which is very upsetting already) and always with an extra nasty psychological twist--and the fact that the two main characters were not easy to identify with. In fact, with Coyote's character, we were continually wary of him. So there was no safe place for the viewer.

Now I've not seen that new serial murderer show, Dexter or whatever it's called, so I can't compare them.

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If shows like L&O-SVU where the victim gets raped and mutilated every episode isn't "too dark" for the average viewer, what is?

I only meant my comments to apply to my own experience. I can't figure out why people do like half the stuff they do.

I watched the SVU pilot. That was enough for me. When L&O-SVU comes up in conversation (in real life), I try to work in Allyson's pet name for it.

But they don't want to explore the inside of dangerous, crazy people.

This is the case with me. If I had the channel that carries Dexter, I wouldn't watch it, even though I now understand some more about the premise of that show (thanks to Polter-Cow), enough to make its appeal somewhat understandable to me, now.

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Dexter puts the viewer in an even more unsafe place because Dexter is rather likable. But he isn't killing innocent people, so there's that. His narration, however, allows him to connect with the viewer.

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Now I've not seen that new serial murderer show, Dexter or whatever it's called, so I can't compare them.

The Inside was sometimes hard to watch, but it wasn't unwatchable to me. Dexter makes me physically uncomfortable. i've tried watching two different eps and it just really squicks me.

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Dexter makes me physically uncomfortable.

I did get the shudders at the end of the pilot.

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I *love* Dexter, maybe even the character -- which, yes, does worry me. Many of the characters in that are lovable in their own way. Personally, the only thing which really creeps me out about it is the title sequence. Which isn't graphic at all. But it still creeps me the fuck out.

To me, many of the qualities of The Inside -- the fact it was different to what people expect from shows of that nature, the characters are different, more layered and explored, the fact the characters were often front and center of the story instead of being purely exposition chess pieces (CSI! CSI!) most of the time -- those are the things which, in my mind, may have effected ratings. I may be wrong about that. I also think that applies to Firefly.

In a way, my world view is sad. I don't want to think many viewers are thick and fed the same shit on TV everyday, lapping it up -- but in some respects, I do.

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I just have a higher tolerance for dark. Things like Saw, for example? Over the bar, for me.

Me too, Zenkitty.

I've been told I'd love Dexter.

I just ran across this Tim quote:

There's something nice about being able to go from a hard drinking space western to a hard drinking whimsical comedy to a hard drinking abyss peering noir.

So drive will be a hard drinking fill-in-the-blank?

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