Hands! Hands in new places!

Willow ,'Storyteller'


Natter 43: I Love My Dead Gay Whale Crosspost.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


tommyrot - Apr 05, 2006 5:23:39 pm PDT #9025 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Stupid Comics: [link]

Lana and Superboy get fat! Giant-headed creatures try to make Lex good! I am Curious (Black)!

I bought this hoping it'd be a porno film like its namesake, but no dice. Instead Supes helps a sister out by turning Lois black for a day so she can have the black experience.

Oh my....


Topic!Cindy - Apr 05, 2006 5:28:37 pm PDT #9026 of 10001
What is even happening?

I agree with Jars that change has to come from within the society. We can offer pressure to change and support and whatever is needed, but we can't step in and force it to happen. Otherwise it smacks too much of the Neocon's worldview of "We know what is right for you and we're going to make you do it" and we all see how well THAT worked out.

There have been times, in human history, where the actions one group of people has been perpetrating upon a second group of people is so horrific, that if outsiders had sat around and waited for the change to come from within the society in question, the second group of people would have been extinct.

Now, maybe you don't think FGM in particular is either severe enough or clear cut enough to justify outside intervention, but if that's what you were trying to get at, I think a different approach might be in order.

Waiting to get involved when it is a "society" that needs to change inside...A philosophy like that doesn't bear out when we look at what sort of outside action we feel is both lawful and Right, where mini-societies are concerned. For example, consider the family as sort of a microcosm of a society. It has its leaders, its location, an economic system, laws, customs, and some presumption of sovereignty over its own citizens.

If, in Famiy X, the parents were abusing the children, you can't tell me you would say, "We can offer pressure to change and support and whatever is needed, but we can't step in and force them to stop abusing their children. It would be Neoconish of us to bust in there, and stop the child abuse." Yet every day, acts of physical abuse and torture with lifelong consequences are being perpetrated on young females in societies that practice FGM.

And although I too, hate Neocon philosophy, it's naive to make it sound like buttinskiism is either always bad, or that it originated with the Neocons. Power groups have been imposing their will on other groups (from large groups like societies, all the way down to something small, like a problem between two individuals) throughout the course of human history--and sometimes, even because of moral convictions that such and such is wrong--and this is something we support, in that we believe in police departments and social service agencies. Buttinskiism and imposing of will is so not original to the Neocons. In fact, I'm not sure history will even decide they were particularly effective.


sumi - Apr 05, 2006 5:30:56 pm PDT #9027 of 10001
Art Crawl!!!

I haven't seen Bones yet -- so you know my choice, but I couldn't tell you if it was the right one.


Jessica - Apr 05, 2006 5:38:14 pm PDT #9028 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

This was a very peaceful episode of TAR. No shakeups of any kind. I guess that's what happens when nobody gets hopelessly lost or stuck at a challenge. Poor nerds!

I REALLY want to play kayak polo! What fun.


Lee - Apr 05, 2006 5:51:31 pm PDT #9029 of 10001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Thanks Sumi. Tivo was set to record TAR, so I guess I'll stick with that. Especially since I already read the TAR whitefont.


Cass - Apr 05, 2006 5:58:14 pm PDT #9030 of 10001
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I did NOT get a call from my lost brother tonight.
Damn, and I was hoping for a new episode too.


quester - Apr 05, 2006 6:19:38 pm PDT #9031 of 10001
Danger is my middle name, only I spell it R. u. t. h. - Tina Belcher.

TAR: My favorite moment was Phil dancing to the music between bathmat arrivies!


Strega - Apr 05, 2006 7:14:50 pm PDT #9032 of 10001

Waiting to get involved when it is a "society" that needs to change inside...A philosophy like that doesn't bear out when we look at what sort of outside action we feel is both lawful and Right, where mini-societies are concerned.

Saying that the change has to start from the ground up doesn't equal "waiting to get involved." It means supporting groups that help jumpstart that change through education, as opposed to believing that it can be imposed from the outside.

A family's relationship to a society isn't equivalent to one society's relationship to another. The parallel doesn't work. And even if it did, it's not a functional solution. If you're opposed to the practice, presumably you want to do whatever will eliminate it in the fastest, most effective way. Due to ongoing difficulties with human nature, force is not the fastest, most effective way.

Female genital mutilation is already illegal in many of the countries where it is common practice. That has not prevented it from remaining common practice.


sumi - Apr 05, 2006 7:41:54 pm PDT #9033 of 10001
Art Crawl!!!

Quester -- I totally meant to mention that moment too.

Doesn't it seem like Phil is having fun this season?


Scrappy - Apr 05, 2006 7:43:09 pm PDT #9034 of 10001
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

What Strega said. I think there's a difference between doing all one can to create cultural change -- such as people outside the U.S. speaking out and engaging in trade sanctions because we still engage in capital punishment--and forcing a country to make cultural change--such as England coming over and entering our prisons and taking them over to stop us. I am outraged and sickened by FGM, but I don't think force is the way to stop it. The question becomes where you draw the line. A majority of Americans believe arranged marriages are wrong. Do we then invade India to end this custom?

Sometimes force is neccessary, like WWII and the genocide in Rwanda, but if we actively engaged in trying to work inside other cultures instead of imposing our will from the ouside with no understanding of the conseuences, we might effect greater and more lasting change in the world.