If you want to compare apples to apples, I don't know of a single culture that is okay with cutting off a penis.

Take the women away, and he'll probably suffer a rapid demotion. Unless it's blacks or kids or Jews or foreigners or the elderly.

But specifically raped?

And if you're raping the blacks or Jews, etc. you're raping the women. Even if the men are weak and handy as long as there are women* its the women that are raped.

• all of this with the 'vast vast majority of the time' codicil.

You don't think that the society's views of them are tied to the physical consequences?

I don't think the groups of societies that usually undertake female circumsicion are medically aware enough of the consequences to truly understand them, anymore than a surgeon in the Middle Ages knew why his patients' wounds became infected. These are generally very uneducated groups, and in fact, moving up the social strata in countries where female circumsicion is performed, the numbers drop considerably.

Timelies all!

Interesting discussion. I have nothing to add, other than agreeing that the guys in question are pondscum.(and that's an insult to pondscum)

But specifically raped?

At times, yes. Women aren't always raped in power plays either, but as long as the power players are sexually oriented towards them, it'll play a large part. Seeing that removing the gender to which the power players are oriented does not stop demonstrating power through sex tells me it's not all about gender.

Which, really, is my point. It's about power. Gender is secondary, when it does rate.

The former head of a national program formed to target child sex predators pleads no contest to to charges of exposure of sexual organs to a 16 year old. Yay people!

Jars, I agree that female circumcision is perpetuated by women and deeply engrained in the culture and has to do with status and all those things. And those are good things to know in order to end it well and truly and effectively rather than just drive it underground.

But ending it is key.

Cultural respect is grand 99% of the time. Even here it is a grand way to end fgm.

I don't think the groups of societies that usually undertake female circumsicion are medically aware enough of the consequences to truly understand them,

Actually, I don't think that's completely true. The main purpose of female circumcision is to decrease and control a woman's sexual desire.

Which, really, is my point. It's about power. Gender is secondary, when it does rate.

In regards to domination in general, sure.

But in regards to rape specifically, how can you say gender is secondary when NOBODY is raping the pizza boy?

I don't think the groups of societies that usually undertake female circumsicion are medically aware enough of the consequences to truly understand them

I'm fairly contemptuous towards proponents of female genital mutilation, but I don't think for a second they haven't noticed the significant consequences.

how can you say gender is secondary when NOBODY is raping the pizza boy?

First off, I think it's pretty likely at least one person's raped a pizza delivery boy. The pedant in me requires I state that.

I do feel completely comfortable in the position that correlation is not causation. Just because it happens more often to women doesn't mean it happens more often because we're women. That is my point. It doesn't make me safer walking to my car to look at it from my angle, but I was never arguing that it would.