Did Abraham to the right thing when he followed God's directions to sacrifice his son? Whether God is likely to ask the same of you is not the important issue.

And if your answer is: Well it all turned out okay, or I don't know, what does that say? The question of the rightness of that action doesn't affect all the other things I believe that inform my religious affiliation. And I'm getting ready to veer into the historical basis of religion vs modern practice and that's pretty far from anything you were saying.

I don't actually take issue with your analysis in a general way. I'm just interested in exceptions to general rules as a general rule.

In my neighborhood, we don't have an ice cream truck driving really slow down the street, we have the tool sharpener guy banging his bell with a real hammer to tell people he's around to give your knives, lawn mower blades, and saws a tweak. Freaked me out when I first saw his little van, but now it's a sign of the return of spring.

Brenda's li'l sis and I saw one when she was here in NYC! So cool!

Was this the Jerusalem Bible? 'Cause I think this is the one I need to own for reference purposes.

I think the Jerusalem Bible is different.

I've seen other multi-translation bibles, but they generally have four and his has six. I can't remember the names of any of them.

What if I just think, "this is a nice story that teaches people that a just god wouldn't actually make you sacrifice your kid"?

Would a just God put Abraham through the process of deciding to kill his son and making all of the preparations?

Look, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all say that God was just and good in doing this, because God is just and good by definition. They all say that Abraham was just and good in following God's wishes, because the just and good acts are always found in God's wishes. Some people will disagree with this view. As for me, I suppose that I don't appreciate a practical joke in quite the way that the biblical God does.

Hmmm. I'm typing up meeting notes, and I'm not sure what one guy's name is. I have a guess, but if I'm wrong, that sucks. If I leave him off, that sucks more. I really wanted to get these sent out tonight. Bleh.

Can you google what you think it is and see if the results tell you one way or the other?

I have a parallel Bible, only four translations though. KJV, RSV, NIV, and Living. (I'm a Bible translation snob. I find the latter utterly risible.)

I don't know that I agree they're independent though, or at least, I'm not using 'independent' in the same way, but that's probably largely because of how I defined world view ('religion' isn't sufficient when we're a mixed group, because it's not like the areligious don't have an understanding and opinions on how the world works, what humans roles are in that world, what their duties are to one another, etc.)

I think that's probably where some of the disagreement arose. It probably felt like these 'meaning of life' issues were getting co-opted into the concept of religion. Religion's certainly one way to approach such questions, but it doesn't really sit right if they get used interchangeably.

You're right, I'm using 'independent' here in a narrower sense. Independent in the sense that my moral position is compatible with a wide range of religious beliefs, and doesn't strongly bias me in one direction or another. But of course I was raised a Christian, by Christian parents, in a Christian country (though I've heard a fairly loose argument that Aussies are in fact sun-worshippers). That's relevant to my morality. But not deterministic, I think. To me, it's more important that I was raised by moral parents, and I certainly learned from them that adhering to a particular religion in no way abrogated my responsibility for the way I treated others. And I responded to Christianity differently from any of my siblings, and most of my classmates (when I was eight, I gave up swearing after a sermon the local priest gave on the subject. I'm still very mild where swearing's concerned. I mainly like the B words, esp. bastard and bugger, because they have such a nice ring to them. How to distinguish between the environment and my response? I suspect the attempt is meaningless.) Still. It would not do to describe things in this context as being independent.

As for me, I suppose that I don't appreciate a practical joke in quite the way that the biblical God does

OK-- I think Rick and I are the same person (see my post on Abraham?Isaac as practical joke above)

also HELP!

Hi-- I need some quick Excel toubleshooting.

I have a table with the headers Scene (a number) sub-scene (a letter) and Actor. I need them sorted by actor, and then within actor by scene and subscene.

I go to the sort menu, sort ascending by actor, then scene, then subscene.

It is all working perfectly except there are about 6 rows that will not sort properly. I have a scene series (just under one actor) going 2, 6, 10b, 14b, 7 8 9a 9b 9c. I also have two actors who are sorted perfectly, except scene 6 is at the end. I have highlight the column and changed it to "number" . I cleared the formatting. I retyped the numbers. I cut and pasted the numbers from someone else where the sort was working. They persist in sorting oddly!

Any ideas (

(x-post in Natter)

Well, I did a search on the U. email system, and that's where I came up with my guess. Google might be worth a shot.

Edit: Nah, that didn't work. His name is too generic. It's like I'm not sure if the Jack I know is John Smith or Jackson Jones, but I know it's something along those lines! Hmph. Have sent out email queries.

So, I just got fired. I knew it was coming, but it still sucked. (Unsurprisingly)

I think JZ and I go out to dinner tonight.

Would a just God put Abraham through the process of deciding to kill his son and making all of the preparations?

Possibly, if the culture (and thus Abraham) were so steeped in the notion of human sacrifice that the lesson that 'this one's different' needed to be presented that forcefully.

Though I'd imagine Isaac would be in therapy forever. And when I read 'allthe preparations', I hear "with all the trimmings!" Mmm, dat's good Isaac.