Simon: I, uh... I never-never shot anyone before. Book: I was there, son. I'm fair sure you haven't shot anyone yet.

'War Stories'


Literary Buffistas 3: Don't Parse the Blurb, Dear.

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


Polter-Cow - Jun 27, 2006 12:31:34 pm PDT #787 of 28067
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

6.9 books of third-person limited, Harry perspective, followed by a final denouement from the viewpoint of Hermione would be incredibly jarring.

Well, the first chapters of both Book 1, Book 4, and Book 6 were from more of a third-person omniscient perspective. I think she's done it enough that a final chapter from that perspective wouldn't be too jarring.


Connie Neil - Jun 27, 2006 1:56:51 pm PDT #788 of 28067
brillig

Harry's second greatest battle, I think, would be "what do I do after Voldie's dead?" Can he get up again, face the costs and move on? If he dies, he becomes a cliche, the Martyred Hero, etc. If he lives, we get to see that there are messy loose ends to great battles, that there is pain to cope with, that the world doesn't automatically become a better place. No other character's experience of the post-war world would have the same relevance after all this time.

The greatest cost to Harry would be if he had to watch/let Ron, say, die. His first friend in the wizarding world, maybe pulling a Doyle. That I can see very easily.

Hermione? She's the Muggle's witness to the wizarding world, the interpreter. She'll survive.

Neville? His revenge for his parents might necessitate his death. It would be perfectly dramatic, the boy who's been dismissed and mocked all along the way suddenly essential to the resolution. An Eowyn-esque twist of Neville being the real answer to the prophecy.

Draco? I can see it happening, but it trends towards "I can only redeem myself by dying for the cause", which is also a cliche.

Snape? It wouldn't be so much of a redemption cliche because he's been nasty but on the side of light the whole way. And it would be an ultimate "Up yours" to both Voldemort and Harry if he was the one smirking over a Doomsday weapon of some sort.

Hagrid may well be a goner, though it would be more of an angst point than any real plot point.


Aims - Jun 27, 2006 2:49:06 pm PDT #789 of 28067
Shit's all sorts of different now.

Personally, I do see Neville dying. I see him dying AND fullfilling the prophecy. Neville's the one that sacrifices himself to defeat Voldemort, just as the prophecy says. (I have an issue with the prophecy. Just cause Voldemort scarred Harry, doesn't make that the mark Sybill spoke of. You can scar someone much worse than cracking their head.)

I also see Mr. Weasly dying.


Polter-Cow - Jun 27, 2006 2:58:09 pm PDT #790 of 28067
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I think Sirius will come back from the dead just so he can die again.


billytea - Jun 27, 2006 3:22:51 pm PDT #791 of 28067
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I think Sirius will come back from the dead just so he can die again.

"Oh my God! He killed Sirius!"
"YOU BASTARD!!"


DebetEsse - Jun 27, 2006 3:37:29 pm PDT #792 of 28067
Woe to the fucking wicked.

"I feeeel happppyyyy. I feeeeel happpyyyy."


Kate P. - Jun 27, 2006 3:43:28 pm PDT #793 of 28067
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I am totally with Cindy and DebetEsse on the matter of Harry dying. I don't want to see it, and I think it would change the meaning of the previous 6 books. They would essentially become the leadup to a great tragedy, when they should ultimately be about triumph. The tone of the books has been growing progressively darker, but if Harry dies, that would make it too dark for me.

Hermione and the Very Sad Funeral

snerk!


Gris - Jun 27, 2006 4:35:28 pm PDT #794 of 28067
Hey. New board.

I have an issue with the prophecy.

The prophecy is a funny thing, actually. I'ma quote it phrase by phrase, and give some thoughts about each - anybody who hasn't made it to OOTP could probably do with skipping this post (should I white-font?)

The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...

This, Dumbledore got. It's pretty straightforward. Either Harry or Neville has the power to defeat Voldemort. Surprise.

...and the Dark Lord wil mark him as his equal, but he will have power the dark lord knows not...

This is the single best piece of prophecy-evidence to the Harry-is-a-Horcrux plot point spec. "Mark him as his equal" is not the same thing as "mark him." The "equal" bit is especially telling, to me - how does a scar show equality? I suppose it could just mean that it makes it easy for the wizarding world to tell who he is, but that doesn't cut it for me. Combine that with the power bit, and I read it as Harry will find out he's a Horcrux... and then learn to tap into some of Voldemort's own power, using it against him.

and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...

The first half is confusing - I can read it two ways. The first is the typical one - one of them has to kill the other one. I'm fine with that. Frankly, though, the first half feels like commentary to me - not necessarily prophetic, just explanatory and, quite possibly, confused. It doesn't even seem to connect that well with the second half (which mentions nothing about one of them killing the other) despite the conjunction. So let's examine "neither can live while the other survives." This sentence doesn't parse like one expects. In fact, one could say it's a lie - it's happening RIGHT NOW (in the book timeline). They're both alive! I actually think this is a symbolic sentence - Harry can't live a normal life while Voldemort survives, and Voldemort can't live a full life while Harry is alive... because Harry contains part of Voldemort's soul, which can't be released until Harry is killed. I think that's the reason "lives" and "survives" are each used - Voldemort and Harry are both currently surviving, but not living. (This is actually a really good argument for Harry surviving the encounter, to turn on myself - it really is a Buffy moment in that sense.)

the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord will be born as the seventh month dies...

Yay for bookends!

The real point is, the prophecy doesn't really say much of ANYTHING other than "Harry might be able to beat Voldy" which, yeah, that's why we read the books. Also, the Neville thing, which is probably a red herring but may not be.

My actual guess is my plot point will come true, Harry will decide to sacrifice himself for the good of the world, and Hermione will figure out some way to save him at the last minute.


meara - Jun 27, 2006 4:38:49 pm PDT #795 of 28067

Well, the scar is from surviving the curse, so one could say "equal" just cause he didn't perish of the curse. Possibly. Though I like the idea of the whitefonted stuff, yeah.


DebetEsse - Jun 27, 2006 4:45:00 pm PDT #796 of 28067
Woe to the fucking wicked.

I think that's the reason "lives" and "survives" are each used - Voldemort and Harry are both currently surviving, but not living. (This is actually a really good argument for Harry surviving the encounter, to turn on myself - it really is a Buffy moment in that sense.

This I absolutely agree with.

I still think it's the scar. Not Harry himself.

I don't want Neville to just be a Red Herring. He deserves better, dammit.