Literary Buffistas 3: Don't Parse the Blurb, Dear.
There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."
I have to agree with this. Back when I was contemplating How Buffy Would End (between S6 and S7, I believe), I had a great scenario in my head of total death and destruction, and the only survivor would be Jonathan. A great image, but not true to the show as a whole.
I know what you mean. I used to delight myself imagining a series finale ending with Spike and Dru dancing on Buffy's grave (I'll dance with you, pet—on the slayer's grave), but had that come to pass, it would have actually invalidated the whole series for me.
What does him dying have to do with everything being meaningless? If Harry's just been fighting for himself this whole time (pauses to consider the books to date), then it's all so much smaller.
You can extract great meaning from dying for a cause, especially if it's done knowingly.
Of course you can. I just don't think that's true to (what I have read of) this story. So much of this is an coming of age story (to me), anyhow. I don't know if that helps convey what's behind my opinion, or not. I don't have any other way to explain it further, except that it would, to me, be wrong.
It's important that he lived as a baby. And it's important that he was marked. And it's important that he has always allowed himself to name He Who Shall Not Be Named. And it's important that the sorting hat basically let him choose. And it's important that he was so mistreated by his Muggle relatives, locked under the stairway, and that they tried to hide his heritage from him.
I fully agree with every one of these statements. I just fail to see why the importance of these things discounts the possibility of a tragic young hero's death. Yes, I think there should be some serious enlightenment (ascenstion?) between now and then, which I don't necessarily think JKR can do adequately - part of why I don't think it will happen. But I wish she could.
And who said anything about a meaningless death? If JKR does her job the way I think she should, the last book will really paint a picture of a war with a charismatic, incredibly terrifying leader slowly taking over the world, and he'll die a sacrificial death to stop him. Do we think that soldiers who died in World War II stopping Hitler had meaningless deaths? I don't.
But really, this is only why I justify not being disappointed by Harry's death. The real reason I want him to die is purely plot-based. There's a certain speculative plot point out there, based on HBP, that I absolutely love and REALLy want to happen. Unfortunately, I personally haven't seen any possible resolutions to it that result in Harry living and don't seem like cheap ass-pulls. So when I say "Harry should die" I really mean "Harry should die because it's necessary for this plot point I like to resonate with the awesomeness it should and it's okay because tragic hero."
However, there's also this:
I would hate it if they had him go into some deadly situation without getting a scratch because he is The Hero.
Only I have to add "for the tenth time." to that sentence. At some point, his danger has to catch up to him because, while HP is kid-lit fantasy, it's not really a fairy tale.
So much of this is an coming of age story (to me), anyhow.
I have no personal disconnect between coming of age and choosing to sacrifice for the greater good.
There's a certain speculative plot point out there, based on HBP, that I absolutely love and REALLy want to happen.
You mean the one where
Harry is a Horcrux?
Because I love that idea too. I think I came up with it myself, and then I found out everyone else did too.
(There was no need to whitefont that, but since Gris was vague, I followed his lead.)
I still don't know whether Rowling would really have Harry die at the end. Yes, the books have been getting darker, but as Cindy said, they're still kid-lit. I don't even know if she would kill Ron or Hermione.
There's a certain speculative plot point out there, based on HBP, that I absolutely love and REALLy want to happen.
Do you mean the speculation that
he's the last Horcrux?
I don't see how that's possible. Dumbledore said that even the possibility
of Nagini being a Horcrux was stretching the bounds of Horcruxes. I can't see a human Horcrux as being a legitimate option.
It's a very popular theory in fandom, though.
Edited to vague things up a bit.
Do we think that soldiers who died in World War II stopping Hitler had meaningless deaths? I don't.
Wow, I've never seen zero-to-Godwin happen that fast before.
Who's Godwin?
t /probably uncultured
Also, I don't go that quickly to such cliches, usually, but the Voldemort/Hitler comparisons are so rampant in the world of HP discussion that my thoughts are totally colored.
I think Harry will live purely because I don't think JKR is a mature enough writer to pull off his death. And I say that with as much love as I can muster. (I've been disappointed in her writing since GoF -- I just don't think she's good at teens and adults the way she was at children, and the books have been suffering for it.)
And who said anything about a meaningless death?
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that, and I realize now I did with the 'everything is meaningless'. What I meant is, to me, the whole story would be meaningless, even were his death to be meaningful (for the greater good, in service to the noble cause), it would just negate his story for me.
Do we think that soldiers who died in World War II stopping Hitler had meaningless deaths? I don't.
Of course not. Really, David? What kind of question is that? How would I—how would anyone answer that? Sadly, Hitler is the kind of monster you meet in this world.
I just don't think Harry's death would serve the story, and I don't think one thing (finding some deaths too meaningful to ever express) has anything to do with the other (an abused orphan's coming of age story).
I would hate it if they had him go into some deadly situation without getting a scratch because he is The Hero.
Only I have to add "for the tenth time." to that sentence. At some point, his danger has to catch up to him because, while HP is kid-lit fantasy, it's not really a fairy tale.
I do agree with the above. I actually expect some scratches on his soul, as well.
I have no personal disconnect between coming of age and choosing to sacrifice for the greater good.
How would you make sense of the narrative? Not a challenge, I just really don't understand it. I'd need some big middle steps from JKR, that I don't expect I'll get.
I still don't know whether Rowling would really have Harry die at the end. Yes, the books have been getting darker, but as Cindy said, they're still kid-lit. I don't even know if she would kill Ron or Hermione.
I think Ron's a goner.
I actually thought there was a good chance Harry would die earlier in the series, and then come back though, so what do I know?
