yeah for me it's the "too stupid to live" angle that makes R&J interesting to me. That and the fact that grownup meddlers are as responsible for their deaths as R&J their ownselves. So many people cite the story as this romantic tale of true love and tragedy when I think the reality is that if the grownups had just let them be those whacky kids would have been in love with someone else within a week.

I hated Luhrman's movie the first time I saw it. My position has been that you either stick to the text or re-write it completely. I don't think it's OK to cut and paste Shakespeare and the guns as swords and Romeo being literally wet-behind-the-ears in every scene made me roll my eyes forever. But then the girl I was in love with told me it was her favorite movie and John Leguizamo is great so now I kinda love it.

There were a lot of things about Luhrman's R+J that irritated me, but I loved the way he staged their deaths (loved in the sense that I found the entire scene physically unbearable): the comedy-gone-wrongness of it was ratcheted up to a ridiculous pitch, with that inevitable sum depending on split-second bad timing.

Yes, exactly. I think where you run into problems with R&J is when you try to downplay the utter ridiculousness of it all, rather than the opposite.

I was the only one laughing at jokes like sending the letter "post-haste" and then showing a FedEx like vehicle with a logo for "Post Haste"

Oh yes. And the film is just littered little details like that.

ETA:

My position has been that you either stick to the text or re-write it completely. I don't think it's OK to cut and paste Shakespeare and the guns as swords and Romeo being literally wet-behind-the-ears in every scene made me roll my eyes forever.

Like this. And see, this is a big part of what I love about it. Why isn't it okay in your book?

I remember seeing Ian McKellan's Richard III in the movie theater with a relatively small group of other viewers, and at least they got into the little jokes/incongruities of the updated setting. When his jeep got stuck in the mud and he shouted, "A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse!", we all busted out laughing at the very apt setting of that very famous line.

I love this adaptation of R3--McKellan is so delightfully slimy. I also recently saw the Trevor-Nunn-directed Macbeth with McKelland and Judi Dench, and his performance was equally impressive (as was hers, of course!).

Eustace Diamonds was the first Trollope I read, and a good choice, too. Even though it's one of the Palliser Novels, you don't miss anything by not having read the earlier ones.

Connie, I don't know whether The Church and church politics are your cuppa. If they are, The Warden is a good place to start, followed by Barchester Towers.

My lunchtime book is also a Trollope, John Caldigate. (Of course I read several books at once. Doesn't everyone?) The heroine, and to a lesser extent the hero, are Too Good To Be True. But the plot revolves around a legal issue and a trial, which is standard Trollope.

The Way We Live Now definitely isn't for beginners in the Victorian novel, and it's long enough that I wouldn't recommend it as an entry point into his work. But one thing I love about it is that the financiers and the financial shenanigans are front and center.

Why isn't it okay in your book?

I think because the first time I watched the movie, I was so familiar with the text that I wanted them to say the words in the order my brain was expecting. It's like when someone does a cover version of one of my favorite songs and then changes "she" to "he". My brain shouts, "WRONG!" But after watching the movie with a girl I loved who loved the flick my position softened somewhat and I was able to appreciate it on the level I think the director intended. It was easier to take the second time, knowing what to expect.

I love this adaptation of R3--McKellan is so delightfully slimy.

I love it too, Kathy.

I still need to see the Luhrman R+J.

One spit-take away from a comedy, in other words (although Mercutio's and Tybalt's deaths had raised the stakes past the point of comedy, I think).

Mercutio's death really marks the turning point in the play (where the comedy goes wrong, as it is). Sadly, it also takes out the only character I find interesting. Woe!

I guess my problem with Too Stupid To Live is that, well, Too Stupid To Live = Me Cheering For Their DOOM.

I love this adaptation of R3--McKellan is so delightfully slimy.

Yes, which is what makes that adaptation so much fun.

Pete surprised me last night with a copy of Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet on DVD. Yes, I know it has some flaws, but it's so pretty!

Me Cheering For Their DOOM.

yeah. That's why even though I can appreciate the movie, I still think the death scene goes on waaay too long.

and I was able to appreciate it on the level I think the director intended. It was easier to take the second time, knowing what to expect.

There might be something to that - I do think it improves on rewatch, when you can dig into the details since you're not so occupied trying to figure out where they're going.