Now way back in the old Smallville cocksicle thread I argued that boy bands like N'Sync were designed to have public personae which they exploited and were consequently fair game for RPF. Since the persona was itself a kind of fiction.

I have heard guys say that they're happy to have their appearance commented on because at least it's something about them, rather than about something they own or can buy. Being reduced to a wallet is just as insulting in its own way as being reduced to a bustline.

That's true -- and it's something I wouldn't have thought of as a woman. I am lucky to not think of guys as a material commodity -- and to not have gf's who do, either -- so that idea of Man As Wallet is startling to me. But I know it's still a very real part of gender-sliced societal thinking, in the US, and maybe even more so in other countries.

How do you think this applies to the gay community? Men, not chicks? (Not asking you to represent all gay dudes, BTW; just asking for thoughts, cause I'm interested in this line of thought, Matt.)

As to the boiband/emoPeteWentz thing...could it be argued that all public performers, regardless of the deliberate sexualization of their image, should realistically expect that someone out there will be taking their image and...well, wanking off to it, whether in via visual print, words or just mentally?

I argued that boy bands like N'Sync were designed to have public personae which they exploited and were consequently fair game for RPF

I think they're more designed than, say, Tori Amos, but almost everyone in music is designed. But I think they're more like little lies than the full fledged fiction being discussed above.

I'm not going to pretend my interaction with boy bands was either long or deep but it was interesting in relationship to public faces.

As to the boiband/emoPeteWentz thing...could it be argued that all public performers, regardless of the deliberate sexualization of their image, should realistically expect that someone out there will be taking their image and...well, wanking off to it, whether in via visual print, words or just mentally?

I think there's a significant difference between "should realistically expect" and "should be expected to be okay with." I mean, by some definitions I'm a public performer; I've given presentations to a couple thousand people, in large groups, a few of whom have then commented on my appearance in their evaluation forms and may for all I know have gone home and jacked off thinking about fucking me. I don't worry about that, personally, but I don't think I deserve to have it publicized, either.

This is a weird conversation to discover happening in Literary.

as a, I think, not-unattractive woman who has grown-up in woman-as-sexual-idee-fixe society, I think most women are used to the idea of sometime, somewhen (like, twice a week, on the street or in the drugstore) being the at least fleeting centerfold in some stranger's 30 second porno.

I'm... not. I mean, I know it happens, because people shout out of their cars at me about my breasts, but then I tell them they're assholes and spend the rest of the day in a righteous dudgeon.

May piss you off, but does it surprise you, Nutty?

I mean, I can't say it's something I pretty much ever spend time thinking about (and now that I am thinking about the possibility, it's making me vaguely weirded out and paranoid!) but I would assume it happens.

Yes, I meant "used to" in a not-surprised-it-happens sense, not an oh-ok-whatev sense.

Just to clarify.

May piss you off, but does it surprise you, Nutty?

Surprise me in the "Wait, that actually happens?" sense, no. Surprise me in the "You did NOT just demonstrate your asshole tendencies in front of the whole class" sense, very much yes.

And in the sense where it instantly turns an ordinary day into a bad one, and makes me want to beat half the species to death, yes, every time.

I would be surprised because I don't think I'm attractive.

I appreciate guys not telling me when/if I feature in their Skinemax special, but I know guys do it. It's best I don't know how often.

I don't think guys do it because they're nasty, so it doesn't set me off too much. I don't know if guys think I don't do it because I'm a prude, but that would set me off to the extent of at least kicking them in the nuts.

::tries to work out how to bring it back to literary::

::fails::

But that's a story that's told about me, and I'm resigned to its inevitability. I don't like having it told to or around me.