Agreed on the violence & horrors of TV and war Kat.

I guess I just find it disturbing that YA is now all about these erotically charged, but sexless, relationships where the main character's cluelessness is what preserves the purity of the relationship. I find this neither realistic, interesting, or healthy. I would just as soon that my YA be devoid of any references to eroticism than have it flirt with sex but suggest that ignorance is the best defense against anything untoward.

Sorry to pile on your DH, Raq, who I realize is not here to defend his POV, but I have to strongly disagree with this interpretation of current YA books. I mean: yes, there are a lot of (frankly rather interchangeable) paranormal romance books* in particular that are all about the erotically charged relationship between the main girl and the guy she can never have because they are sworn mortal enemies, or between the main girl and the two guys she must choose between (though she will always choose the one who is her sworn mortal enemy). But that represents maybe 20-25% of what's out there in YA right now, not to mention the fact that in many of these books, there's quite a lot of sex! Twilight is all about the chastity (and the forced repression of female sexual desire, but that's another rant), and some books have followed its very successful lead, but many others have explored sexuality and desire in very different ways.

(Also, I think it's not at *all* unrealistic to portray a teenage relationship as erotically charged but not ultimately leading to sex. Certainly my own relationships as a clueless teenager followed that pattern!)

And anyway, I do think Hunger Games breaks this mold in a few different ways. For one thing, as others have said, the romance is very explicitly not important to Katniss; she's got too much else on her mind, like trying not to die, to decide whether or not she wants to be with either Peeta or Gale. But also, I found the love triangle aspect of the story refreshing, because for once, I really could not tell who she might end up with. I didn't know who I wanted her to end up with, I didn't know who she wanted (because she herself didn't know, and didn't particularly care to figure it out), and both guys, for all that they were very different characters, seemed like equally plausible romantic possibilities.

*(I'm not saying that all paranormal romance books are interchangeable, by the way! It's a genre like any other, and of course there are some authors who do it really well and use it to tell an interesting and believable story.)

But also, I found the love triangle aspect of the story refreshing, because for once, I really could not tell who she might end up with. I didn't know who I wanted her to end up with, I didn't know who she wanted (because she herself didn't know, and didn't particularly care to figure it out)

This, so much. For once, instead of finding herself attracted to two guys, the heroine discovers two guys are attracted to *her*, and she's a little baffled by the whole thing, especially in her situation. I really appreciated that take on it.

ITA, Amy. Although I have some issues with Collins' plotting, I really appreciated that. Katniss could have been a male protag, and Peeta and memfault girls, and the story would have basically been the same.

I mean, I think it's wonderful and important to the story that she's a kick-ass female, but the focus is on her humanity, and not her girly-bits.

But also, I found the love triangle aspect of the story refreshing, because for once, I really could not tell who she might end up with. I didn't know who I wanted her to end up with, I didn't know who she wanted (because she herself didn't know, and didn't particularly care to figure it out)

This, so much. For once, instead of finding herself attracted to two guys, the heroine discovers two guys are attracted to *her*, and she's a little baffled by the whole thing, especially in her situation. I really appreciated that take on it.

Ah. Thank you both. I like what you've said here. Katniss' bafflement does help, and I think I was overlooking it, because for me, it went on a little long. I appreciate being able to rethink this from a different perpective.

So, no worries about piling on the DH. He is hypercritical by nature, and the more he likes something the more critical he is of it. He bitched about BtVS all the way through the entire run of the show, while making sure to always be home in time to watch it, and then bought all the DVDs.

I just felt like this was such a nutty line of attack that I had to share, while trying to frame my own response to it.

Now into the discussion a couple days later, his point has been refined to "Peeta doesn't behave like a real teenage boy.". Which I kinda have to agree with, but I don't ink Collins make him so beatific just for the Katniss romance angle; I think he's also a contrast to the other contestants and the population in general.

I'd also have to point out that teenage boys (and, for that matter, college boys) don't always react or behave or respond like you think they will.

I just finished "Water for Elephants" on the bus, and I cried and cried.

It was the weirdest crypoint, though. The Kindle edition does not open to the epigraph, but the page after, so I didn't see it. I was reading the "Book Group Questions" and it asked about it. It was "I meant what I said and I said what i meant. An elephant's faithful one-hundred percent!”- and Horton is a cry-point for me anyway, and I just lost it.

I'd also have to point out that teenage boys (and, for that matter, college boys) don't always react or behave or respond like you think they will.

And that teenaged boys living in a totalitarian country, required to participate in a kill or be killed competition, and being starved to death are even harder to pigeonhole.

Now into the discussion a couple days later, his point has been refined to "Peeta doesn't behave like a real teenage boy.".

None of the characters behave like "real" teenagers, if the touchstone is late-20th- and early-21st-century American teenagers.