Mal: There's plenty orders of mine that she didn't obey. Wash: Name one! Mal: She married you!

'War Stories'


Literary Buffistas 3: Don't Parse the Blurb, Dear.

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


§ ita § - Mar 05, 2006 5:41:41 pm PST #118 of 28061
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

This:

if you were to immerse yourself in most of the sci-fi being published these days, you would probably enjoy it as much as one enjoys reading a biology textbook or a stereo manual

Is either not true, or no more true about sci fi than about any other genre, and there seems a subtext to me that he's talking about what makes sci fi different from other genres.


Strega - Mar 05, 2006 5:58:25 pm PST #119 of 28061

But he's not saying most of it is bad. He's saying most of it will not appeal to the average non-SF reader. The thrust of the article is: this is a good book. However, I can't recommend it to people who don't normally read SF, not because the story isn't interesting, but because

What is missing from "Counting Heads" that Marusek's earlier stories had in abundance is what you humans call emotion — a reason to care about his characters, so that observations like the preceding one would carry the impact they deserve.

Instead of focusing on the characters, the author's busy with world-building. That's why he's comparing it to stereo instructions, and that's what he's saying is typical of SF. Most of fiction is bad, yes. But I don't think you can say "most fiction, good and bad, has this same flaw." Whereas it is extremely common even in good SF.


§ ita § - Mar 05, 2006 6:09:46 pm PST #120 of 28061
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

He's saying most of it will not appeal to the average non-SF reader.

I'm probably an average SF reader and I don't see the appeal of stereo manuals or bio textbooks.

Now, if he's saying most of everything is turgid, fine. But that's not how I parse that quote above, not even a little.


meara - Mar 05, 2006 6:11:09 pm PST #121 of 28061

But as a SF reader, I would rather read a book that had good characters and emotion. Him suggesting that SF readers might enjoy things that are not good enough for other readers is a little insulting, I think.


Strega - Mar 05, 2006 7:12:08 pm PST #122 of 28061

ita, did you read the whole article? Because out of context, I can see it, but in the article what he's implying seems pretty clear to me. It's specifically about ignoring the human element in favor of "Looky at this world I made up, and the funny words I invented to describe it." Other genres have their own problems, but I think treating the characters as simply an excuse to talk about abstracts is pretty specific to SF.

Him suggesting that SF readers might enjoy things that are not good enough for other readers is a little insulting, I think.

It's a matter of different priorities. SF readers as a whole value the world-building, the ideas, the exploration, and will forgive flaws in the more fundamental aspects of storytelling. And those are the stated priorities, so that's fine, but you can't dismiss characterization and nuanced writing in favor of neat ideas, and then complain when the mainstream thinks a lot of SF consists of cliched characters running around speaking technobabble.


§ ita § - Mar 05, 2006 7:18:32 pm PST #123 of 28061
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I did read the whole thing. But I can't read that quote any other way, and so it colours my interpretation of the rest of the article, rather than the other way around.


Nutty - Mar 05, 2006 7:37:53 pm PST #124 of 28061
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

More to the point, the "stereo instructions" segment of SF is a very small segment in a very big, very diverse field. Personally, I can't stand hard SF, which is where the stereo instructions tend to reside these days.

I was a lot fairer to say of the whole genre that the characetrs were wooden 30, 40 years ago. Yeah, a lot of that stuff isn't actually good writing. But, New Wave, feminist revolution, niche marketry -- ? Does this guy actually read anywhere near the full breadth of his field?

(And doesn't he know that SF/fantasy crossover into romance is the Next Big Thing? If what he is saying were true anywhere near across the board, that cross-fertilization would be impossible.)


Strega - Mar 05, 2006 8:15:49 pm PST #125 of 28061

I can't read that quote any other way
Even when the lead-in is "I really enjoyed this book, I just can't recommend it to people who don't read SF"? I mean, if he's damning SF readers, he's pretty clearly damning himself, too.

I dunno. I suppose my bias is that I agree with him.


§ ita § - Mar 06, 2006 4:02:14 am PST #126 of 28061
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't care if he damns himself along with me. I think he's damning me (and a great many people) wrongly. He may enjoy bio textbooks and stereo manuals.

That doesn't make it a valid generalisation.


Strega - Mar 06, 2006 4:56:31 am PST #127 of 28061

I don't think it's a valid generalization either, but I don't think it was intended as such. Is that really the sticking point?

He's not saying that SF readers enjoy reading things that are dull, but that they value content over esthetics. You read a stereo manual because you are interested in the information it contains, not because it is written in a way that is artistically pleasing.

The other way to take it is that SF readers aren't as superficial as mainstream readers. That's just as accurate.