wrod on the cringe-inducing nature of the idea - it's so difficult to un-Mary Sue fanfic in which the characters read fanfic. Bleagh. And yet I'm quite happy to buy the idea that Willow - and indeed perhaps Xander - might have read fanfic. They were both pretty geeky and/or fannish kids, after all, and Willow was little miss hack-into-the-Pentagon-computer-three-times-before-breakfast. So logically it seems fair enough - but it's still the sort of plot summary that does make me shudder. I'm sure a good writer could pull it off, though.

characters on TV don't tend to watch TV

Spike does. I think Dawn does.

FayJay, precisely. But it seems to be the sort of thing that people put in because it seems cool, rather than because it seems believable. Or organic. So I think it could be plausible, but it always seems shoehorned. Plus it always seems to be a plot point, and how likely is that, really?

Plus, no one ever seems to find it strange. And you know, in real life, at least one of their friends would be like, "Fanfiction? Oh, please."

Wow, have I gone on about this for long enough? Actually, it kind of interests me because it falls into that group of things that people seem to have a difficult time not Mary-Sueing. Like a character cooking what is obviously the author's favorite dish, or going somewhere on vacation, or talking about a book.

Spike does. I think Dawn does.

Oh, Betsy, with the being right. Yes, they do. But not onscreen (much), which I think was at least partially my point. Maybe.

Okay, no, my point was that generally the focus of characters on a show is their own lives, leaving little time to be involved in someone else's storylines. But you're right, they are shown to get involved in TV shows. Okay, I take it all back.

I've read "character reads/writes fanfic" as a sort of parody - often the character is reacting to common problems or annoyances in fics, like the ones where Garak bitches about Garak/Ziyal stories...."I suppose I should just lie down and think of a nubile Englisman," or Spike's "'I hope you dance?' More likely, 'I hope you get eviscerated."

Willow did get a strange look for admitting to the fanfic. And I have no problem imagining her writing herself as a Mary Sue at age 12 into a Doogie Howser story.

characters on TV don't tend to watch TV

Very true, in the main. I cannot recommend too highly (AD's ex girlfriend) Caroline Aherne's show The Royle Family, which is about a slobby working class Northern family who spend every episode sitting in front of the telly smoking and drinking tea. It's entirely possible, of course, that it's too culturally specific in terms of both humour and pathos, but I swear I've not seen anything better on stage or screen, imho. She's a f*cking genius. It's poised perfectly between comedy and drama, totally accessible (to a UK audience, at least) but still very subtle and true and cringe-inducing. And moving. Bathetic and pathetic both, in the best sense of the word.

t / gushiness.

Caroline Aherne is AD's ex-girlfriend? No way! I didn't know that. (I love The Royle Family too.)

Well, they don't spend a lot of time showing them watching TV, though they often make references to it, and will often show a few minutes of it. "Friends" has shown characters watching soap operas, Baywatch, videos - though typically it's just for less than a minute at a time. "Roseanne" often showed the characters spending a lot of time in front of the TV - though it probably was supposed to be a statement on working class lifestyles.

Hec, absolutely. That was believable, organic, and in character. My bitch is only about fanfic in fanfic.