But I'll say this: it's a hell of a lot easier in many ways to write a story about two people fucking than it is to write a story that reads like an episode of the show itself.

Eh, I know that's not intended as a slam, but it still kind of reads like one. And it seems to do the Slash = Porn thing, only turning it to ShipperFic = PWP, which isn't the case a lot of the time.

I'm not plotty most of the time. I've had one thing with a serious plot arc (okay, three, but only one is finished), but nor am I out there writing PWP. I find it more satisfying to seek the emotional truth of things than to write action. I don't know that it's easier to do that than it is to write something plotty.

However, if I have to look up a shooting script to get it, then the writers have failed in their slashy tasks. Their medium is TV, if I have to read a shooting script to get a slashy vibe from a couple then they're not doing their job.

See, I saw the vibes before I read my first piece of fanfic or even knew that the shooting script had that kind of stuff in them. I mean, I was CERTAIN Wes and Gunn were doing it, just like I was SURE Wes had a thing for Hairloaf, and that Hairloaf had a thing for Lindsey, and that Faith was lured out by Lilah's lips and gams.

I see the world through queer-tinted glasses, you see.

There's a lot of different kind of fic out there. But I'll say this: it's a hell of a lot easier in many ways to write a story about two people fucking than it is to write a story that reads like an episode of the show itself.

This is not in any way to be taken as a slam on people who prefer to write about relationships, but I do think it's an explanation for why the PWPs so far outnumber the episode-like stories (what we used to call Casefiles in XF).

Plot is HARD.

In my case (switching terms from slash to Unconventional), as I spend a good deal of my time in analysis and interpretation of the shows, UC pairings, slash or het, are a natural fit, because they take the subtext I so adore, and work off of that. Now, one could in theory do that in gen, but I, as a writer, prefer to do it in something relationship based. I find that it makes it easier to find situations where the core emotional aspects of, say (giving in to the pairing I run a site for) Wes and Buffy can be explored. Obviously, YMMV.

Okay thanks. Those two views really make sense to me. Thanks for the explantions. :-)

Well, in the area of slash (same sex relationships) you have all kinds of different stories, with all kinds of ratings. Writers put together couples, tear them apart, write them in steamy sex scenes, write them having terrible sex (there was this challenge), write them in stories with no sex.

I mean, I've yet to write any sex but I still write about slash relationships (I'm not good with writing sex and then when I tried I couldn't get past Xander's issues about Spike and vampires.)

For me it goes back to the characters. I like knowing what makes them tick, why they do what they do. Besides what we are shown on screen because that's no all. Exactly what was going through Xander's head when he left Anya (which isn't slash I know). Is Wes's loyalty to Angel simply admiration or is it attraction?

Is Lindsey just dedicated to stopping Angel and infatuated with Darla or does he really want Angel, what makes them all tick?

I like crawling inside their heads, poking them with sticks and making them bleed. (I write stories with dark themes, what can I say?).

As for slash itself.

I see the subtext, I SEE Lindsey attracted to Angel. Not from what I read in the shooting script but what I saw on tv.

I SEE the attraction between Gunn and Wes, again, not because I read stage directions but because that's what I saw when I watched the episodes. It's what my eye picked up--body language, the way they look at each other.

Same thing with with the other shows I see subtextual homoerotic relationships. And there are places where I don't see it (Lord of the Rings for example) but other people do.

For me, it's just there. Just like, I can see a subtextual attraction between a het couple.

Eh. Plot *is* a lot harder to write than a sex scene. Or a G-rated character vignette, for that matter.

Point taken, Ple. I didn't mean to slam you, certainly. You're a good writer and it's not meant as a slam if you prefer to write about relationships and the plots associated with character interactions. That's one of the things that interests you in the show.

There's also a huge readership for character-based stories, and while plotty stories like Yahtzee's or Rheanna's get great responses, not everyone has the chops or the ambition to pull that sort of thing off.

I have to admit, I'll choose a well-written and constructed plotty story over the best-written relationship story. But that's just me.

Argh, I'm unable to say anything on this topic without pissing people off. Perhaps Nutty, queen of Plot, will come by and rescue me from my inarticulateness.

See, I saw the vibes before I read my first piece of fanfic or even knew that the shooting script had that kind of stuff in them. I mean, I was CERTAIN Wes and Gunn were doing it, just like I was SURE Wes had a thing for Hairloaf, and that Hairloaf had a thing for Lindsey, and that Faith was lured out by Lilah's lips and gams.

I see the world through queer-tinted glasses, you see.

See this is the thing. Wes Gunn, I just don't get any vibe there at all. And I've hung around the Buffistas long enough to look for it. And I figure that I'm not a sad old bigot refusing to see what's going on, and I just don't get it. That's half my problem. These pairings? I just don't see it.

Can I ask you this? Xander Riley? Was there any slashyness there? Because that was the only male/male realtionship that I've seen in the MEverse that was remotely realistic. As in in two pals. Maybe the writers can't do male chums. I don't know.

I mean, I've yet to write any sex but I still write about slash relationships (I'm not good with writing sex and then when I tried I couldn't get past Xander's issues about Spike and vampires.)

Someone's pants are on fire.

UTTAD, if your objection is writing things that we haven't seen on screen (and if I'm misunderstanding your problem, I'm sorry) or that the creators and writers didn't intend, then what do you write about? Because anything that you or I or PMM writes about isn't cannon, and isn't shown on screen. I mean, if you write about Buffy fighting a new demon, or getting a haircut, or having sex with Anya - that comes from you, not from the richness of the show.

Eh. Plot *is* a lot harder to write than a sex scene. Or a G-rated character vignette, for that matter.

You must have a MUCH easier time with sex scenes than I do. No, seriously.

Because man, those are the hardest thing in the world to write. Like pulling teeth.

It's interesting, seeing people's different tastes. Yahtzee is really hit or miss for me. Some of it is incredible, and some of it makes me yawn. I think it all depends on how much is given over to plot, and how much to characterization. Loved PB, didn't love Splinter. I sometimes feel like the Only Freak in Freakdom who found it... dull. So again, YMMV.

askye: I think your last post really opened my eyes. You see slashy thingmabobs wehre I see none. And that, in essence, is where the fic writers live. You see those ships, I don't so you write (I assume) shippy fic), I write plotty fic. Who's right? Both of us. But probably you, because I'm willing to bet my cat that there are more people reading your fic than mine. :-)