I, personally, completely in the inside of my head, cannot understand this at all. How can you not totally be in love with the idea of magic, for instance?

Um. I think that to some extent, the more you've lived, the less exciting the trappings of fantasy become. Possibly. Unless you're in a really horrible situation, in which case fair enough. But I can't think of a way of expressing this that doesn't boil down to being offensive and probably using the word 'escapism'.

Um. Keep in mind that I adore The Lord of the Rings and BtVS and that I will happily watch most any shiny genre TV/movie.

A long time ago, when I was a very cliched adolescent, I had a pin that said "Reality is for people who lack imagination." (Actually, I had a whole shitload of pins. It was the 80s.) That was pretty much my take on the world.

Now - well, now I think everyone has a different reality, and exploring these realities can be absolutely thrilling. People who lack imagination aren't inhabiting my reality, and their response to the world around them isn't going to be the same as mine. t still half convinced that sharks will eat her every time she gets in a swimming pool. although no longer worried about them in the bath.

As a teenager I devoured SF/F fiction. Presently I'm reading mostly genre-based fanfic and/or non-genre books. I'm still fond of SF/F in principle, but I think my take on it has shifted a little. With BtVS, for example, I adore the whole juxtaposition of pulp genre tropes & conventions against mundane reality - but the reason I'm so in love with the show is because it often uses these fantasy elements to mirror and explore reality. I mean, that's a big part of the appeal of SF/F for me - getting to step outside the normal framework, look at your world and/or issues and then re-present it all with a twist, so that you see things with fresh eyes. So that you see your own reality in a slightly different way - not expecting sharks to jump out of a swimming pool (Ooooh! Deep Blue Sea's on tonight! My very favouritest B movie!), but rather so that you can see your enemy's point of view, or reassess your values. That kind of thing.

Which sounds terribly earnest. I'm not terribly earnest, I'm really not. I'll happily engage with SF/F on a "Oooh, shiny" level, but (these days) for me to engage with it intellectually (and thus extend it a degree of respect) it needs to have resonances beyond that.

...and I'm not at all sure where I'm trying to go with this.

eta

Can we shift the books discussion to Literary?

Now if anyone has any fanfic recs ...

Whoops! Apologies. Shutting up for real.

"Buffy" has been the first scifi-fantasy to give me a ping in a long while.

I think I'm the one who started this divergence into genre studies, so let me briefly say: Lyra et al., I forgive you for not liking the same books that I like. t /gracious queen

RL, I'm still a little unclear on how it's OK for you to ignore certain reading options due to dislike, disinterest or lack of experience, whereas it's not OK (naive) for Suela or someone else to ignore certain reading options due to personal choice, ethics or visceral squick, but we seem to be talking past that point now. But, like I said, not everybody likes the same books. Personally, I loathe the type of style-first books you're describing, because I derive pleasure primarily from plot and characterization.

Different strokes, you know.

I'm suddenly fascinated to know what these would be. I think it's a rare thing, too. A few titles/authors? Please?

Uh. Off the top of my head, which, by the way, is a terrible phrase:

Hood, by Emma Donoghue. Remains of the Day, Kauzo Ishiguro. My Little Blue Dress, Bruno Maddox (which some people may find slightly over-the-top, but I think is just so clever and moving and effective). Hot Throbbing Dykes To Watch Out For, Alison Bechdel (I'm very serious). The Game (short story), Donald Barthelme. Orlando, Virginia Woolf. BtVS. Fail-Safe, The movie I watched last night. An assload of stuff.

I remember recommending a certain anime story to someone with the caveat: "This is the best story I didn't like. It's awesome, and brilliant, and I will never, ever read it again."

That's how I felt about watching Requiem for a Dream. This is a really well-done, effective, affecting movie, and I can't wait for it to be over so I can never ever watch it again.

[sorry, was xpost. no more book talk.]

Yes, we're gathering preciousesssss for a recs update.

Also, x-posty:

Here's a link to the finalists in the "Farscape FanFic Awards 2003".

If you can make it past the awful design, the pop-ups, and the mind-boggling categories, you should go vote for cofax, Makiko, and KodiakkeMax.

t /travesty

I like both kinds, just for different things. And I think a vague feeling of incest-squick keeps me from finding Xander sexier. He reminds me of my brother A TON.

Fay, I think I get what you're saying. When I was a wee girl, I loved fantasy for fantasy's sake. Dragons! Elves! Magic! Wow! I wasn't the most discriminating reader, either. In fact, I got rather annoyed when the fantasy-to-plot quotient wasn't high enough.

I think what happened to me was that as people became more interesting to me in all of their complexity, fantasy-for-fantasy's-sake became less interesting. I love all of the stylistic and metaphorical things that one can do with fantasy, but as you said, it's how the fantasy mirrors reality that makes it interesting, at least to me.

I suppose that's why fanfiction can be so much fun. The stories I like work with or push past the trappings of the show on which they're based, and either get into the characters' heads or explore the world at large in some other way.

I think that to some extent, the more you've lived, the less exciting the trappings of fantasy become. Possibly. Unless you're in a really horrible situation, in which case fair enough. But I can't think of a way of expressing this that doesn't boil down to being offensive and probably using the word 'escapism'.

Fay, I'm actually fairly sure that's true. But for me, right now: 1) bad situation (some days even horrible). 2) Not getting a whole lot of oppertunies for living. 3) Needing the escapism.

Hence the "Elves! Shiny!" attitude.

it needs to have resonances beyond that.

For me, characters who behave realistically, whose problems have echoes in real life problems, and who-- this is the key part-- have ways in which they can win through and solve most of those problems, is resonance enough.

t /whatever that just turned into

RL, I'm still a little unclear on how it's OK for you to ignore certain reading options due to dislike, disinterest or lack of experience, whereas it's not OK (naive) for Suela or someone else to ignore certain reading options due to personal choice, ethics or visceral squick, but we seem to be talking past that point now.

And I said, that's not what I said.