That's what Dads always believe of their little girls. My father taught me about automotive mechanics and hand tools while my older sisters were off in the fabric store with my mother.

There are unrealistic characters throughout literature, for very good reason: they may be archetypes, the work may be an allegory, the work may not be even trying for naturalism. For example, Riley's wife was clearly supposed to be annoyingly perfect, so as to increase Buffy's unhappiness with the situation and her own life in comparison. You can say "well, they didn't do that well, " but I often find -- and I'm not pointing fingers, just speaking generally -- that as soon as a character gets labeled a Mary Sue by someone, that shuts down discussion completely. Similarly, for me, I'd think that going in to fiction or drama looking for Mary Sues with that broad a definition of what one is would flatten my experience of what's out there to read: if I came across a sympathetic and unrealistically talented character in a story and said "Mary Sue! Next!" I'd've missed out on The Last Samurai, Arcadia, The Broom of the System, Pattern Recognition, and Orlando, just to name a bunch of books I love off the top of my head.

Heh!!!!!

For instance, in "Kid Dynamo", the fact that a new girl who's a godawfully powerful telekinetic and Magneto's daughter doesn't warp the cast out of recognition; the New Mutants continue to have their personal lives, they have interactions that have nothing to do with the new girl, and she pretty much never singlehandedly saves the day.

That's my story and character.

if I came across a sympathetic and unrealistically talented character in a story and said "Mary Sue! Next!"

I don't think you understood me completely. I didn't say sympathetic, I said over-sympathetic. There's a vast difference between the two in my mind.

And I didn't say "unrealistically talented". I said "unrealistic". And I said "boring". Someone who is not a realistically-*human* character, flat and two-dimensional (or, I suppose, if this is Flatland fic, one-dimensional) and (as is clear from narrational cues) *expected* to be found charming and wise and morally correct by the readers-- that's a Mary Sue to me. Orlando is *not* a Mary Sue.

That's my story and character.

Rock. Recognition is cool.

Actually, I now have a valid reason to beg someone for an LJ code, since I could then go to the discussion and thank her for saying nice things about my story... that is, if there's anybody here tonight with a code to offer?

I think I have a code, let me check.

Theo--I have a code, would you like me to send it to your profile addy?

Profile would be good, yep! Thanks in advance!

Okay, insent