The Big Lebowski, which I loathe

I understand the words individually...

Oh, yeah, I do remember reading that The Big Lebowski is supposed to be sort of a noir parody. As far as loathing, I fell asleep the first time I tried to watch it with friends, but years later, I gave it another shot in another mass viewing and really enjoyed myself.

I will say that while I found it amusing the first time I saw it (and some individual setpieces sublime), I mostly thought it was a ginormous shaggy dog joke. On rewatch, the movie gets funnier and funnier every time I see it.

I'm with y'all. The first time I saw it, I didn't connect much with the movie (and, to be fair, I was high as a bat at the time). Over time, it's become my favorite of theirs.

what's Miller's Crossing if not noir?

Dude! (so to speak) It is a gangster movie. Which really is a genre.

The Big Lebowski, which I loathe (I know, I know).

::shuns megan and Plei and Alieann forever::

The Big Lebowski is completely a noir parody. The Dude is Marlowe as a stoner/draft dodger instead of a WWII vet.

Of course, Altman had kinda already done this in THE LONG GOODBYE, albeit with more of a hipster/beatnik Marlowe, and somewhat less overtly parodic (though ultimately probably much more subversively).

So, people who didn't think much of it the first time around, what made you rewatch? (I ask because I was also unimpressed and a little bored by Lebowski, but it's never occurred to me that I should give it another try. There just didn't seem to be enough there there for a second viewing.)

Well, I think the French critics that named it certainly looked at it in that way. I would tend to say that it has evolved into a genre, that is, I think that today one can say a film is noir and the audience would have certain aesthetic and narrative expectations of that film.

Right. Neo-Noir is a genre. Original Noir? A cycle. Similarly you could copy elements from the French New Wave cycle and turn them into a genre.

You know what genre really boggles me? German alpine movies from the 30s.

Dude! (so to speak) It is a gangster movie. Which really is a genre.

Yeah, it has gangsters, but it's nothing like The Godfather or G2 or The Sopranos. Maybe White Heat.

Of course, Altman had kinda already done this in THE LONG GOODBYE.

Which I also hated. And I generally love the Coen brothers and Altman. I guess Bogie=Marlowe for me and I don't want anybody to mess with that.

Yeah, it has gangsters, but it's nothing like The Godfather or G2 or The Sopranos. Maybe White Heat.

Well, see you're citing movies which are themselves very late additions to a genre which has its origins in the 30s with The Public Enemy and (the original) Scarface. Of course the Coen's are going to go to the source, rather than contemporary reworkings of the Gangster film. Miller's Crossing does have a lot in common with movies like A Better Tomorrow. All about the loyalties and the cross-purposes, and the getting and holding power.