I like this discussion on wit:

In his book Paradigms Lost, John Simon points out that humor and wit are nearly polar opposites. Humor is inclusive: it invites everyone to join in on the laugh and feel like one of the crowd. Wit is exclusive: it addresses itself only to those who are in the know, and if the other people in the room feel uncomfortable because they don't get it — hey, that's a bonus.

But I'm not sure how to apply it. I think, a lot of the time, the witty bits are the bits that have me saying "Oh, it's meant to be funny" in some confusion.

Which I hadn't thought about before -- wit is exposure, shock, something absurdly revealing and attractive and offputting all at the same time. It's like, ha ha ha, you didn't think I'd actually go there, did you? Well now I have.

I don't see wit as that at all. To me it doesn't require shock--in fact, I don't associate the two. Wit is deft. Humour isn't in any way orthogonal to wit, though wit doesn't have to be funny. It has to be pointed, deft, perhaps painful, whereas humour can be gentler, or broader, or more overwhelming.

What ita said.

I pretty much agree with Simon's statement also, except I think wit is a subset of humor. Humor includes wit, but wit does not include all of humor.

I read an article some years back on insider/outsider humor, and how one will be more popular than the other depending on what the society is experiencing. The article postulated than when society was stressed, laughing at someone's misfortunes (Charlie Chaplain, Buster Keaton, Three Stooges, Tom Cruise) was ascendant, and when society felt confident, humor that required the audience to be "in the know" was more popular (Johnny Carson, SNL, Eddie Izzard).

I'm not sure I agree with that broad a generalization, but I do think that humor is often consumed as a reassurance. And I think "insider" and "outsider" might apply to wit vs. broader humor.

Of course, I completely forgot about Gilmore Girls, which is so witty that the CW is using the tagline "Free to Be Witty" to promote it.

But yeah, mostly on TV now.

when society was stressed, laughing at someone's misfortunes (Charlie Chaplain, Buster Keaton, Three Stooges, Tom Cruise) was ascendant, and when society felt confident, humor that required the audience to be "in the know" was more popular (Johnny Carson, SNL, Eddie Izzard).

Buster Keaton is a lot more nuanced and layered than that. There is an aspect of laughing at his misfortune, but then there the realization of just how clever and skillful the visual gag is, and then the realization that he is the one who planned and executed the gag himself. So I do think it falls into the realm of wit, even without dialogue.

I keep thinking about The Importance of Being Earnest, which is damn near perfectly witty -- almost every single line is gorgeously crafted wit -- and which Wilde described as "written by a butterfly for butterflies." Quick, light, darting, every line ending someplace you couldn't possibly have predicted, but which on looking (listening) back is exactly right and inevitable.

What are the wittiest movies of the past 25 years? Is wit dead?

Would Wilde count, what with much of the wit having originated in the 19th century?

when society was stressed, laughing at someone's misfortunes (Charlie Chaplain, Buster Keaton, Three Stooges, Tom Cruise) was ascendant, and when society felt confident, humor that required the audience to be "in the know" was more popular (Johnny Carson, SNL, Eddie Izzard).

American society was very stressed during the '30s and '40s (at least, if the Depression and WWII aren't significant stressors, I don't know what are). Yet that era may have given us the peak of witty comedies.

Also, technology matters. Just looking at the movies, verbal wit only became possible when the talkies arrived.

Thirding what ita said.

I think wit is a subset of humor. Humor includes wit, but wit does not include all of humor.

But this, too. Maybe because of phrases like "keeping your wits about you," I usually associate wit with smart humor -- definitely a Gilmore Girls type of thing. Whereas broader humor includes things like Benny Hill and pretty much anything starring Tom Green. Not witty at all, but funny (in a completely subjective way).

So, Joe and I rewatched Fellowship and Two Towers over the weekend.

I still have an issue with the way OB gets on the horse behind Gimli. I has to be a CGI fuck up.

IIRC from some DVD extra or another, that scene is a victim of injury. They had tried the scene, but it didn't look right, so they were going to come back and do it, but then he broke his back and they didn't get to come back to it. So they had to CGI it instead.