I miss Oz. He'd get it. He wouldn't say anything, but he'd get it.

Xander ,'Get It Done'


Natter 41: Why Do I Click on ita's Links?!  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


tommyrot - Dec 20, 2005 8:16:16 am PST #3571 of 10002
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

A detailed look at the judge's decision, from the perspective of someone opposed to ID: [link]

We pretty much knew we were going to win, the only question was whether we would win little or win big. Folks, we won really, really big. This decision could not be any better for us or any worse for ID. I'll post some excerpts from the ruling here. First, the judge applied both the Lemon test and the endorsement test. The judge ruled unequivocally that ID is a religious idea dressed up in scientific sounding language:

....

Here is a paragraph from the judge's ruling:

Dramatic evidence of ID’s religious nature and aspirations is found in what is referred to as the “Wedge Document.” The Wedge Document, developed by the Discovery Institute’s Center for Renewal of Science and Culture (hereinafter “CRSC”), represents from an institutional standpoint, the IDM’s goals and objectives, much as writings from the Institute for Creation Research did for the earlier creation-science movement, as discussed in McLean. (11:26-28 (Forrest)); McLean, 529 F. Supp. at 1255. The Wedge Document states in its “Five Year Strategic Plan Summary” that the IDM’s goal is to replace science as currently practiced with “theistic and Christian science.” (P-140 at 6). As posited in the Wedge Document, the IDM’s “Governing Goals” are to “defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural, and political legacies” and “to replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God.” Id. at 4. The CSRC expressly announces, in the Wedge Document, a program of Christian apologetics to promote ID. A careful review of the Wedge Document’s goals and language throughout the document reveals cultural and religious goals, as opposed to scientific ones. (11:26-48 (Forrest); P-140). ID aspires to change the ground rules of science to make room for religion, specifically, beliefs consonant with a particular version of Christianity.


tommyrot - Dec 20, 2005 8:20:56 am PST #3572 of 10002
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

More from the judge's rulings:

Moreover, it is notable that both Professors Behe and Minnich admitted their personal view is that the designer is God and Professor Minnich testified that he understands many leading advocates of ID to believe the designer to be God. (21:90 (Behe); 38:36-38 (Minnich)). Although proponents of the IDM occasionally suggest that the designer could be a space alien or a time-traveling cell biologist, no serious alternative to God as the designer has been proposed by members of the IDM, including Defendants’ expert witnesses.

This is brilliant! (in the British sense of the word). How often do space aliens and time-traveling cell biologists get mentioned in court decisions?


Gudanov - Dec 20, 2005 8:23:12 am PST #3573 of 10002
Coding and Sleeping

How often do space aliens and time-traveling cell biologists get mentioned in court decisions?

Not sense Dr. Vokadorff vs. Zaphlat the Zarvarian as far as I know.


Kathy A - Dec 20, 2005 8:23:23 am PST #3574 of 10002
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

But they didn't mention the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Pastafarianism is dissed yet again.


flea - Dec 20, 2005 8:23:39 am PST #3575 of 10002
information libertarian

I note with sadness that there is no mention of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as the Intelligent Designer.

Gotta love the Pastafarian xpost.

IrelatedN I want pasta for dinner. Not a tomato-based sauce. Ideas?


§ ita § - Dec 20, 2005 8:24:57 am PST #3576 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Not a tomato-based sauce. Ideas?

Pesto? Alfredo?


Theodosia - Dec 20, 2005 8:26:09 am PST #3577 of 10002
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

How often do space aliens and time-traveling cell biologists get mentioned in court decisions?

Well, there will always will have been Space Aliens Vs. Time-Traveling Cell Biologists....


Tom Scola - Dec 20, 2005 8:26:29 am PST #3578 of 10002
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

Mac & Cheese.


msbelle - Dec 20, 2005 8:28:01 am PST #3579 of 10002
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

OMG I am totally making mac&cheese!


tommyrot - Dec 20, 2005 8:28:19 am PST #3580 of 10002
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

OK, this is also brilliant - re: the disclaimer that the school board required textbooks on evolution to have:

Jones blasted the disclaimer, saying it "singles out the theory of evolution for special treatment, misrepresents its status in the scientific community, causes students to doubt its validity without scientific justification, presents students with a religious alternative masquerading as a scientific theory, directs them to consult a creationist text as though it were a science resource and instructs students to forgo scientific inquiry in the public school classroom and instead to seek out religious instruction elsewhere."

Rock on.

The judge made a point of criticizing the school board members and the "breathtaking inanity" of their decision. “It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy," he wrote.

“Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an activist judge," Jones wrote. "If so, they will have erred. ... Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. ... The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources.”

I want to marry the judge and have his babies....

[link]