sunken island under the Oceanic flight

Since the Sideways world was a collective construct of the Lostaways', I've decided they sunk it psychically.

Juliet's dialogue while she was dying

That was completely related to the Sideways world. When you die, you download to Sideways Purgatory. As she was dying, she got some bleed-through; her coffee line is right after the download.

Cindy's recaplet is up at TWoP, btw.

The Man in Black's name revealed!

(That's not a joke link, by the way. It's seriously his name, so don't click if you want it to remain a mystery forever.)

There was a whole lot of misdirect that has left me very pissed off.

I'm sorry you feel like it was a misdirect intended to fool the viewers, but I don't see it as a misdirect. I see it more as the episode "Enemies" on BTVS, where it seems like the Mayor found a way to make Angel into Angelus, and "Angelus" conspires with Faith against Buffy, but then it turns out that it was all a setup in the first place -- only the viewer doesn't know that from the outset. Maybe that IS a misdirect, if you assume that you the viewer have to have all the information right up front.

But I gotta say, with Lost, I have never assumed we had all the information right up front. Partly because I don't think that the creators and writers even had all the information, because I don't think they knew what they were doing for a good 4 seasons. But anyway, I don't find the sideways world a misdirect.

But, you know, everyone's going to react to it differently, and I'm sorry you're so pissed about it.

The Man in Black's name revealed!

Huh. That's as good a name as any, I suppose.

I'm just glad it wasn't Esau.

Did anyone else flash to the end of Buffy with the final island scenes?

her coffee line is right after the download

Again, I understood that. (I'm having a day of wording things badly.) It linked 'we could go Dutch' etc. to Sawyer's lack of dollar. But what was its relevance, other than that? We were made to believe that her "It worked" meant the bomb had worked. Of course, it was about nothing more than a candy bar. Yes, fun bleed-through. Not relevant all the same.

And to some extent I can see that these reframes could be fun. But they're also deeply unsatisfying. I feel lied-to without any payoff to make that worthwhile.

At the beginning of everything, when we* were arguing over whether the island was Purgatory or not, a lot of us were sure the complex plot was about so much more than that. I'm feeling let down that they essentially returned to that (obviously with a twist), without linking more of the other five seasons' worth of mythological development to the ending. Maybe that's my failure, as when some Buffy viewers used to demand certain plot developments from Joss. But Joss and the other Buffy writers, while they had many 'You did what?!' moments, never made me feel like they could have done so much better and just didn't.

I shall think more about what I mean, and re-watch if I can hack it.

*The collective internet 'we', I mean. I obviously wasn't here then. I should read back over threads from season one discussions, though - could be interesting.

Edit because it really is a day of making no sense at all. I blame the Man in Black.

We were made to believe that her "It worked" meant the bomb had worked.

I don't get that. Because the point of the bomb was to blow them all back to pre-crash. And while we got a timeline that appeared to be a timeline where the plane didn't crash, we still had the island timeline, and there was no real way to reconcile THAT, in my mind. Like, it could either *not* work, which would leave them still on the island, or *could* work, which would have them all on the non-crashy plane.

But not both. Both made no sense to me, inasmuch as 1 person can't be in two places. So I never really understood Juliet's "It worked" to mean that the bomb did what it was intended to do.

But, again, everyone views stuff differently.

Partly because I don't think that the creators and writers even had all the information, because I don't think they knew what they were doing for a good 4 seasons.

I think it was only 3 seasons. I think they had the last three seasons pretty worked out when they made the deal for the ending, like the fact that they wouldn't need Emilie de Ravin for the fifth season since she was going to be off with Smokey at the end of four, irrelevant during the time-traveling adventures, and then back crazy. The last three seasons have been building. I don't think we got enough payoff or even necessarily the right payoff, but we got one I can live with. I think it would have been impossible for them to get it Right at this point since there were so many unanswered questions.

I think it was only 3 seasons.

I can't even remember what happened in season 4. Was that when the flashforwards started? Like, Sayid working for Ben as his personal assassin, and so on?

Yes! It's my favorite season because of the narrative hijinks. They kept spoiling us for the end of the season so that it wasn't WHAT would happen, but HOW. It was neat.