Before 192-whatever book.

Jane Eyre

Jane rocks.

Well, I think the issue in their eyes is, "You want our money, but you don't want to acknowledge why we're spending our money."

But do they ever? And when people buy stuff on Columbus day is it some great love of the Nina, etc? I honestly think it's just another means for the faux-persecution complex.

I tend to say Merry Christmas, office Christmas party, etc. I never get funny looks or am corrected and I live in the land o' everybody.

Gris, maybe you should celebrate Jewsmas: [link]

wrod.

I honestly think it's just another means for the faux-persecution complex.

::nods head in a non-persecuting-the-Christians way::

They serve people celebrating-- special sales, Christmas decorations and cards with a religious theme, books with a religious theme--why do they have to do any more than that?

Not to mention people who are just there to buy cheap toilet paper and Doritos. Not ALL shopping in December is holiday/gift related.

But what I took away from the AFA's stance was that they think it's a bit hypocritical if stores don't explicitly state it.

HOW is it hypocritical? Unless every single one of their customers is a Christian buying Christmas gifts, what's being lost here? I don't expect public/general acknowlegment of why I'm shopping anywhere, ever. I just don't get what the snub is here.

I generally send non-religious, non-secular christmas, holiday cards. My DH and I aren't the same religion, and I figure if the people to whom I send cards get angsty because Rudolph doesn't appear on them, I probably mis-directed the cards. Because I assume my friends and family want to hear from me at the holidays, not Rudolph.

Whale tail! SO COOL. How much did you end up seeing the whale, did you go watching or was it just there?

These were male sperm whales, so not the most exciting whale to watch. Still very cool, however. They surface for about 10 minutes to get the nitrogen and other unwanted gases out of their systems, and when they do that you can see about 1/3 of him. They flip their tail when diving back down about 90% of the time.

What I found to be most cool is that the whale boats don't use anything to find the whales except a hydrophone and spout-spotting. The hydrophone gets stuck in the water, they listen for the click-click-click the whales make, and they take off in that direction. The clicks generally stop when the whale is surfacing, so they start to look carefully.

The ocean is a big place, and our crew found 3 whales for us. I was impressed. I can't find my keys in the morning.

Thanks for the well-wishes, guys. I can't say thanks to DH enough for the cleanup. I mean, I was all set to go, but he just did it. Such a nice man. (Cash, I always have that mental snicker when I use the term, too. Cock and ball, hee.)

I'll go to Christmas Eve Methodist service (and sing in the choir), I'll give and receive presents under the Christmas tree from all my family members, I'll play games with my little cousins and ask them what santa gave them, and I'll probably join Gershwin Girl for at least one, and possibly several, menorah lightings. It's what my thoughts are and should be that's confusing.

Well, unless you're having a crisis of faith, and I either skipped or skimmed too much, 'cause I missed if you said, your thoughts are really your own. You can completely be with whomever you're with at the moment, and allow them to celebrate whatever they're celebrating, make some space for them to do that. Observe how they do that, the differences between what each holiday means to each of your family and friends, and how they're similar, how they differ, and what the societal meanings are for each, for both. You're being a nice guy, you're being an attentive friend and/or family member, and can feel quite good about that. Relax. Unless you have a driving need to make a point of your new or your lack of faith, it doesn't need to come up at all. Just my opinion, of course. But I've been operating this way for a long time, and so far it seems to work for everybody.

I honestly think it's just another means for the faux-persecution complex.

Me too. OTOH, if Target put up a sign over their christmas section saying "Christmas: Celebrating the birth of Christ", I can't see why that should be offensive to anybody.

Yeah. Sadly, I've not felt very Christian for a long time, but I still enjoy carols and Vince Guaraldi.

Sparky, that is AWESOME.

I got to see Minke whales in Nova Scotia. Before we spotted them every movement was "is that a whale? is THAT a whale?" but once we saw a whale there was just. no. doubt.