I really like the culture of CalTech, UVA and Vanderbilt's honor systems. I prefer cultures/systems which encourage people to rise to high, positive expectations and reward that with trust.
I'd probably have a different attitude about this if I was in that kind of culture and it was widely respected. Then I would've more keenly felt that a fellow student's cheating was a betrayal of institutional trust.
My college didn't trust me that much, and earned that much loyalty in return, I suppose. We weren't heavily proctored or restricted, however. Just took our blue book exams in class by the clock with the teacher in the room. We didn't have to leave our backpacks at the door or take off our hats.
I think one thing shading the discussion is how you perceive who the cheaters are. If, in your mind, you're seeing privilege and entitlement behind the cheating then it looks shitty. The frat boys at my college with their big files of term papers, for instance. If you think of cheaters generally as people who have to finesse the system to survive or get by, then it looks very different. Somebody who cheats on welfare, for example, to keep their family afloat.
In general, sure. I mean, on one hand there's Dennis Kozlowski and on the other there's Robin Hood.
It offends me that cheating occurs. It shouldn't. It should never be necessary, either. However, within a system that expects cheating or encourages it by witholding proper rewards from the deserving, I am unlikely to report anyone.
For what that's worth.
I don't think it's just who the cheaters are -- it's the relationship between them and who they're cheating.
I am glad they bring you joy! It had been ages since I made anything.
Networking about contracting again. Much as I would prefer a permajob, contracting is more likely to happen. Hmm. Will cross the weird daycare slot bridge when I come to it, I guess.
Damn, this adulthood shit's complex.
-t, your PE classes had tests??
I got an academic exception for PE, so I guess our HS classes might have, and I just didn't know.
I have no idea how the cheating conversation started (yes, I skip, I do), but I have caught numerous cheaters--in my case, plagiarists. I have never really had a borderline case, really. And I've seen cases where the students involved lied again and again even when the instructors involved had proof positive. Like young Karl Roves in training.
"It's the law!" by itself isn't a good reason to do something, any more than "There's no law against it!" is a good reason to do something.
When did you become this bunch of lawless anarchists?
For me, it was when I took a criminology class. Now there was a great teacher.
But if he'd failed that class, would that have ruined his chances of ever getting his PhD or being a chemist?
Yes. The bureaucracy of it isn't that interesting, but because of the way that school worked, he would not have been able to get his bachelor's in chemistry. Until the last-minute save, he was trying to figure out what he was going to change his major to.
Like young Karl Roves in training.
Reason enough in my book to come down hard on cheaters.
Reason enough in my book to come down hard on cheaters.
But apparently some turn out as well respected chemists.
-t, your PE classes had tests??
Yeah. I don't remember it too clealry, but I think every class was required to have so many written tests. Including PE. i know I was tested on the rules of basketball. To this day I have no idea what they are, other than the ball going through the hoop scores points. It would have been nice to learn something like that in PE, actually.
I know we were required to write one full page (in English) every quarter in every class. Including PE. And foreign language classes. One of those rules that sounds l ike a good idea until it's actually implemented, and then it turns out to be full of stupidity.
