Aw, vw. You gave it a shot, though! You get major points for that.

That's fine for humans, but what about the non-human cruelty/pain/evil in the world? Animals (don't have souls in Christianity) aren't sentient enough to choose or to count their blessings.)

I guess I'm not sure I find it cruel that animals kill and eat other. It's survival of the fittest in the purest sense, to me. When it comes to animals as the victims of human cruelty, it's horrifying that they have to endure it, but I think in the example I posited, it's evidence of man's sins, something that would (theoretically, at least) provide others with a lesson, or an opportunity to do good by punishing the abuser.

I'm not sure I'm sharp enough for theology this morning, to be truthful.

Pagans post-Jesus are SOL.

That is part of what drove a wedge between me and my original Methodism. There were tons of folks born between the death of Christ and the time the first missionaries came by. They should go to hell why now? And I'm supposed to worship the kind of deity that would set that sort of situation up? Nuh and uh.

That is part of what drove a wedge between me and my original Methodism. There were tons of folks born between the death of Christ and the time the first missionaries came by. They should go to hell why now? And I'm supposed to worship the kind of deity that would set that sort of situation up? Nuh and uh.

In our church, this was handwaved away with, "God will figure something out."

This kind of thing is why my (limited) attempts at religious instruction were like "Tim Bayliss Goes to Sunday School." Except nobody told me it'd be a better world with just kids and dogs.

waves

LOVE the fact that my homies are presently discussing nuances of theology; one never knows whether it will be babies, salad shooters, corsets, Australian mammals or religious beliefs here. I shall stay well clear, I think.

It strikes me that I didn't mention what I got up to this weekend: I went to Alexandria for the first time. The Catacombs (which I can't spell with any confidence) were splendid, and if nobody else has written Spike'n'Dru fic, or perhaps Spike'n'Dru'n'Angel'n'Darla fic, set therein, I may have to do it myself. Fabulous. The library looks magnificent, but was sadly closed - it was the Eid. Sigh. Happily, though, Alex is only a 2 1/2 hour train journey away.

It was very odd being in an Egyptian city that isn't Cairo. Really, Alex is pretty much the only other city we've got. It's a smidgen cleaner by virtue of the sea air (rather than the omnipresent dust of the Sahara) and it has lots of beautiful murals and water features.

Back update: still hurting, but the doctor at school gave me some fabulous pink and purple capsules of muscle relaxant, which made sleeping and getting out of bed much easier yesterday. Go team her.

Calli, ~ma and INSENT INSENT INSENT

That is part of what drove a wedge between me and my original Methodism. There were tons of folks born between the death of Christ and the time the first missionaries came by. They should go to hell why now? And I'm supposed to worship the kind of deity that would set that sort of situation up?

Now this is where Calvinism has got your back. If God preselects true Christians then these people never had a chance not to go to hell in the first place, so it really didn't matter if they heard about Jesus or not. Problem solved.

Fay, have you read Lawrence Durrell's Alexandria Quartet? Four interlinked novels set in colonial Alex. Great stuff.

Also, you'd probably like Alex's great poet, Cavafy.

I want to hear more about The Harrowing Of Hell. Why didn't Milton write that poem? Talk about action figure Jesus.

I want to hear more about The Harrowing Of Hell. Why didn't Milton write that poem? Talk about action figure Jesus.

There needs to be a movie.

Would Jesus need guns in hell? Or maybe just a kickass Samurai sword.

Ooh, it can be a prequel to the SciFi Channels Cerberus. Jesus vs. the three-headed hell-doggie!

Gotta love the Calvinists.

Somebody who is reasoning to faith from logic has to explain why it is logical that God allows cruelty.

Interesting, because my natural response is that it would be the other way 'round, that it would be disallowing cruelty that would be the more remarkable state, and thus in need of explanation.

Because if there's *anything* we don't know, it's what happens after the monitor flatlines.

Oddly enough, I just started reading a Connie Willis book last night that's about precisely that, specifically researchers trying to pin down the near-death experience and what it might mean.