I again repeat -- what is inherently beneficent about creating the universe? You state it, but I don't understand why?

It's not. It depends on the motivations in doing so. You're still looking at it from the end product and working back to a God, which is the second conditional, not the first. Can you attach any meaning to 'all-loving' that doesn't involve giving?

I'm going to bed. Happy philosophizing, all!

Can you attach any meaning to 'all-loving' that doesn't involve giving?

That's my whole point. I do, and have. I don't see that all-loving has to involve giving, therefore I don't get the beneficence link. Whether or not creation is something worth giving is my second question, and possibly quite irrelevant.

Similarly, imagine the odds of a universe being capable of housing intelligent life is 1/10^120, and we just happen to have a universe that is capable of housing intelligent life. Wouldn't you think our universe was rigged--i.e., designed--, especially when the odds of it coming to be randomly are so much smaller than winning at a slot machine ten times in a row?

No, I'd say that's one possibility. Other possibilities include the existence of some cosmological force we don't yet understand resulted in the universe being like it is, and maybe the fact that this universe supports intelligent life might be coincidental to this cosmological force. Or maybe there's a god-like entity that created the universe the way it is for some other reason besides being compatable with intelligent life - maybe this entity doesn't give a damn about life but likes the pretty stars arranged as they are.

That's my whole point. I do, and have.

When, and how?

I don't see that all-loving has to involve giving, therefore I don't get the beneficence link.

So someone can love without giving love?

When, and how?

I do right now. I'm not sure how to give you the insight into my brain to prove this to you, so you can either take my word for it, or dismiss it outright.

So someone can love without giving love?

Are you equating creating the universe to giving love, or is the universe created so that there's something to give love to?

Are you equating creating the universe to giving love, or is the universe created so that there's something to give love to?

Neither at the moment, I'm asking about your conception of love and if it is congruent with the conception that Swinburne etc mean when they say 'all-loving'.

Do the other major religions have an all-powerful, all-loving God?

Obviously Judaism does. Or at least the "all-powerful" part. I don't know if YHWH would be considered "all-loving." I defer to people who've actually studied the tenets of Judaism for this one.

Islam does: pretty much every part of the Koran starts with "In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful"

If you count Baha'i as a major religion, then it does, as it's an outgrowth of the monotheistic religions.

I don't think any other of the majors do though.

So, how about that local sports team?

Poking head to post that it's Franny's birthday! Can you believe that she's two years old already? Happy birthday, Franny! And happy day to mommy Burrell as well.