fwiw, I like the posted articles only because I'm on a crappy slow dial-up and it usually takes forever to load new, image-laden pages.

fwiw, I like the posted articles only because I'm on a crappy slow dial-up and it usually takes forever to load new, image-laden pages.

In the interests of compromise I'll try to keep it to shorter excerpts.

Even my eyes were bleeding after posting that long post in asscaps.

But I thought it was useful because in my experience with the earthquake in San Francisco, the major media starts to shape a narrative and then won't deviate from it. I think the issues in New Orleans are complicated and getting inside accounts (even second hand) are useful.

So, and I'm asking this in all seriousness, do we think the country could collapse?

Back in 1755, Lisbon suffered a catastrophic earthquake that destroyed all but a handful of buildings and is thought to have killed 90,000 people in the city. Before the quake, Portugal was in with France, Spain, and England in the race for colonialism. After the quake and the ensuing political turmoil Portugal was done as a colonial power.

They held on to Brazil, Mozambique, and their Pacific possessions for 200 more years, though. And Portugal as country did not break up and has held its own economically. It did become quite a poor country (though never on the Greek level of poverty) in the 20th century, but it's doing very well now in the EU.

That's why I think the US will remain. We may lose power and prestige over the next century as "the Chinese century" starts, but we'll still be here as a country.

America is very adaptable. The tensions between the coasts and the middle, between liberal and conservative, between the religious and the irreligious, between the races have always been here, and we've survived. And these tensions will always be there. But like the Borg, we'll just keep adding technological and intellectual uniqueness to our own and adapt.

The Grey Lady gets snarky (this is the 3rd paragraph - would this be the nut graf, Teppy?)

"Today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arrived in Louisiana and toured a medical facility at the New Orleans international airport. He spoke to and shook hands with military and rescue officials, but walked right by a dozen refugees lying on stretchers just feet away from him, most of them extremely sick or handicapped, Reuters reported."

"Today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arrived in Louisiana and toured a medical facility at the New Orleans international airport. He spoke to and shook hands with military and rescue officials, but walked right by a dozen refugees lying on stretchers just feet away from him, most of them extremely sick or handicapped, Reuters reported."

Look, you go to disaster sites with the lack of compassion you have, not the compassion you wish you had.

Bwah!

I'm dubious about roaming rape gangs and thrill killers. But everything I've heard does indicate that there were organized armed gangs. That is one of the reasons why they couldn't clear out the hospitals, or get close to the Convention Center.

I agree that roaming rape gangs are unlikely and organized armed gangs likely. I wonder, however, if the gangs as reason for the inability to empty the hospitals and convention center were a big fat excuse. "Oh, we were right there, but the gangs, see, yeah, that's why we didn't get you." For example, the "gunshots at the helicopters" reports I've seen varry widely -- from 'something that sounded like gunshots' to 'snipers shooting at anything that moved toward the doors of the hospital'.

Trudy,

an eyewitness account on a NO tv (NBC affliate I think) website said people were shooting at helicopters to get their attention. I can imagine this as a more likely explanation for MOST of the gunshots.

wonders where she can buy flare gun

an eyewitness account on a NO tv (NBC affliate I think) website said people were shooting at helicopters to get their attention

That makes a lot more sense than, "this is OUR flooded out, filthy, corpse-strewn, hospital/convention center and you ain't gonna take it."

AND I can see how that would easily spin into rumors of "not safe to land, they're shooting" (or BE spun, as I personally suspect, as an excuse).

While I don't think racism/classism is the CAUSE for the horribly mismanagement this is one example of how it could be exascerbating the quagmire -- Those crazy black folks! They won't even LET us rescue them! They're shooting at us!