Just like muffins, they're a clever excuse to have cake for breakfast.

God yes! Muffins have long ceased to not be cupcakes -- I blame coffee shops and their need to serve cakelets and not have people admit to what they were doing.

Brioches are bread for you, 'suela? And yeasty coffee cakes are bread?

Yes, and yes. If it's kneaded, it's bread, full stop. You need to knead yeast.

It's not the sweetness/savory that's the determining factor, it's the kneading, which gives that bread-like texture to the dough and the cooked product.

it's the kneading, which gives that bread-like texture to the dough and the cooked product.

Yeah, I think that's the cause of the effect that I use as a determining factor.

Sorry to let y'all down with the lack of links. Here's how it goes in my mind:

Bread is raised with yeast. (which may be a sourdough yeast starter, not packaged.)

Cake is raised with air, baking powder, or eggs.

"Banana bread" is not really bread, as any annoying cookbook will tell you, because it's raised with baking powder. But then you get into soda bread, which is raised with soda, and coffee cakes that are yeast-based, and the whole damned thing falls apart.

But the reason that bread doughnuts are bread doughnuts is that they are yeast-raised, while cake doughnuts are baking-powder-raised.

This isn't a culture I understand well enough yet to be a productive member of b.org.

I hadn't noticed anything at all - you fit in quite well, I thought. Besides, the board would be rather boring if we all just reinforced each other. (Plus, it's fun to watch you and Susan post together.)

I sort of think the bread/cake thing is like porn. You just know one when you see one.

Hey, DW, I hear you. I feel like I irritate the crap out of someone here every time I do the virtual equivalent of opening my mouth. But, you know, I figure people are generally aware that I don't mean to offend anyone, and someone will tell me if I step too roughly on their toes.

Dear People Who Keep Interrupting Me To Ask for "One More Little Thing That Should Only Take a Minute" While I'm Desperately Trying to Catch up to Deadlines: I am about one "oh, by the way, when you have some spare time" away from getting a tire iron and putting this company's profit-sharing-redistribution-in-the-event-of-untimely-death policy to the test.

Then I figure I'll have lots of spare time.

No eggs=bread

Vegan cakes stand up and say, "HEY!" to that one.

But do vegan cakes have some sort of egg substitute?

People are being so punitive now!

"There's carwax in the sheet cake!"

"Chewy cookies have antifreeze!"

"Of course yeast is alive -- haven't you heard of a yeast infection???"

I think we've just about cured one guy of all dessert ever. And sandwiches.

Stick around, dear/DH/dw. We're more coffeehouse than bar, yeah, but believe me, we'll shout if our toes get stepped on hard enough.