1 Tim 2:11-12

If my complete and utter non-Christianity wasn't evident before...before I saw Libkitty's response, I thought for sure this had to be a Minear-related joke.

This is perfect! Mind if I tag?

Go ahead!

Thanks Jessica!

I'm pretty sure that at least some scholars think that women were more involved than that.

Paul specifically mentions, in his letters, certain women (by name -- I believe Phoebe was one) as his "co-workers in Christ." While that doesn't necessarily imply preaching/teaching, for Paul to refer to them as equals is significant.

I understand that. It just seems to me that I remember that at least some scholars argue that someone mentioned briefly in the NT that many assume to be male, was not. But this is a vague memory, and even my not-so-vague ones don't seem that great right now, so I'll have to check. Perhaps it is, after all, wishful thinking.

Possibly. Bear in mind that in the culture of the time, simply allowing women to attend the services with the men was a radical step. It wasn't a particularly emancipated society that Christ and Paul operated in.

Paul specifically mentions, in his letters, certain women (by name -- I believe Phoebe was one) as his "co-workers in Christ." While that doesn't necessarily imply preaching/teaching, for Paul to refer to them as equals is significant.

Yep, and as noted, they do appear in positions of authority within the community, just not in the preaching/teaching hierarchy.

Though Paul tells the older women to instruct the younger women -- does that count as "preaching/teaching"?

I thought for sure this had to be a Minear-related joke.

Same here. I totally thought billytea made it up. Until Google.

Same here. I totally thought billytea made it up.

Well, at least it's a nice corner to be in....

Bear in mind that in the culture of the time, simply allowing women to attend the services with the men was a radical step.

This is the thing that I think of as the key -- Christianity is so fundamentally progressive as a religion, but it's sometimes hard to see that from here, looking all the way back then.

I need to note that obsession with the baby panda cam made local FOX news. Didn't see the piece, but it was a lead it.

Cracked me up.

My exposure to things biblical as a child were the picture bibles at the credit union and scattershot quaker sunday school. Pretty stories, and heavy on the love everyone rebellious streak thing. I tried at the old testament late in high school but got lost in begats. I didn't get anything organized and thorough until college, when I took a new testament class. Which was...odd.

I am a little sorry it took so long, since it is the dominant culture where I am and grew up. I was much more well versed in Norse, various native american, roman, greek, egyption and even sumerian and maori myth than I was with the judeo christian one. (Some may be offended by me referring to judeo christian as myth. But to someone such as me, it is as such. It isn't a denigration, per se.Just...stories.) The thing is, my parents were very clear in their (rather opposite) beliefs, and really didn't raise us with any agenda. Just exposure and yet somehow.... both my brother and I gravitated first to the more "foreign" stories and ignored those closest to us. Of course, this may be a kid thing. I mean, I grew up 45 minutes from Mexico and the first foreign country I visited was the USSR. And I haven't yet been to Mexico.