I don't necessarily see it, but I didn't necessarily see Spike/Xander either. I've read that and Wincest. I don't know that it's my beautiful cake, but it's not not my beautiful cake, either.

Just thought I'd speak out for the People of Meh, I Could Go Either Way.

On the bench with alla y'all--well, except for Emily.

I mean, I do see it as writ, if the writing and the story make it believeable. But in canon? I've always felt their relationship is physically--as in touch and familiarity with each other's bodies and physicality: "What's wrong with you?"--, mentally, and emotionally, incestuously close, but I don't believe for a second they're sexually involved, nor would either of them ever consider the other as a sex partner.

I'm in the people of "buys it in limited cirumstances, subject to possession, breaks with reality, and abuses of supernatural powers, with a side of if and only if it is not presented as a Good Happy Fun Thing."

All other variations usually throw me out of the story.

I'm in the people of "buys it in limited cirumstances, subject to possession, breaks with reality, and abuses of supernatural powers, with a side of if and only if it is not presented as a Good Happy Fun Thing."

And even then, it's very rare that I'll read it. Basically, I think I've only willingly read it in Destina's "Night Country" and Refur's ... crap. I've forgotten the name, the really long one (heh) where Dean gets possessed and things just get very very bad for a very long time. That's not a story I actually want to reread.

I can read it as part of a "wow, are their lives messed up" theme in fic. They fight demons, they have limited/unusual interactions with most people, they're in an emotional pressure cooker, and their unusual closeness manifests in incestuous sex. I don't buy it as a happy happy joy joy thing, although I could be sold on a thing that is a release in a life that doesn't have much chance for that.

That said, I haven't read much SPN fic of any sort lately. Got dragged into SGA and drowned in gay penguins. It was fun.

I'm in the people of "buys it in limited cirumstances, subject to possession, breaks with reality, and abuses of supernatural powers, with a side of if and only if it is not presented as a Good Happy Fun Thing."

I'm in this group too. I've seen it written well (Shallot springs to mind), but it's rare and generally has to be presented as something that's problematic rather than romantic. And I've never thought for a minute that it was a possibility in canon, though it's been funny when the writers have tweaked the concept. (I don't even recall the context any more, but Dean yelling "Baby, why you gotta be like that?" after Sam had me rolling on the floor.)

Got dragged into SGA and drowned in gay penguins. It was fun.

Gay penguins! I remember that. Calli, if you like, check out the Pegasus_b community on LJ, which had a bunch of really awesome stories written with SG-1 crossovers. The first penguin story was actually a PegB story.

Thank you, Consuela! I'll check it out.

Got dragged into SGA and drowned in gay penguins. It was fun.

Aw, yeah, I remember doing that a couple of years ago! Bless SGA and its gay penguins. Much adorability!

I've been reading Fay's story, and enjoying it like crazy

Good heavens, really? I thought it was mostly me and lots of total strangers! (And Ann and Amy.)

And it's so damn weird, really, because the people with the Wincest icons whose comments are all "Yay! Sam'n'Dean! They're in love! Go on, jump his bones!" have me torn between thinking: "Well, um, good, I'm glad you liked my story" and just wincing. Which then makes me feel shockingly rude and ungrateful, but still - wincing. But there have been several people going "OMFG, I can't believe I'm reading this. I never read Wincest. Damn. But I'm totally sucked in!" And that's good, 'cause I can go and join them and nod in a baffled way and say: "Yeah, fuck, I know mate - me neither! What's up with that? And yet here I am, following the damn story along down this particular path, because this is where it wanted to go. Fuck. Someone pass me a whisky, for the love of heaven!"

I dunno - I remember being very resistant to the Crazy Space Incest reading of the Tams, but eventually I did sort of see how I might buy it happening. With the Winchesters, I really can't see Dean making a move on Sam, or seeing Sam sexually, in 99% of scenarios. And I don't buy Sam looking at Dean sexually, in 99% of scenarios - but I'm more able to accept him making a move on Dean, because his Primary Directive isn't PROTECT LITTLE SIBLING AT ALL COSTS!!! the way that Dean's is.

Mostly, I guess it would take demonic possession, or EvilBoyKing!Sam, or memory loss, or some other mighty swerve away from characterisation or current reality to make me buy it. (Or, in this case, the genderswitch. Which still didn't lead to instant bowmchikabowmbowm, by any manner of means - it just threw a spanner in the works, and added unexpected UST. At least on Sam's part. Dean remained oblivious for months, and then less oblivious, and then there was an elephant in the middle of the room for a bit, and then there was a catalyst.)

Mind you, I do read stories (in various pairings and fandoms) that I enjoy well enough, without actually buying. If that makes sense. I've read several Wincest stories now that I quite liked, even if there was a voice in the back of my head going "...nah. Wouldn't happen. He wouldn't react that way."

Hey guys. Does anyone have a link to that really good Justice League (DCAU) genderswap fic? The one with Mr and Mrs Mxyzptlk? I remember reading it a while back but I can't find where it was linked from.