I was just coming here to ask if anyone had seen any yet! I searched del.icio.us for it last night, to no avail. What is the world coming to??

Big Pink has posted a one-off, gen, John's POV of IMToD, with a callback to Red.

Nutty collected all of her really insightful posts on the Supernatural underclass here: [link]

Nutty, what I liked most about these is that you identified so much of my childhood in there, things I didn't realize were cultural markers of how I grew up until I examined them more closely. [random personal information] When my mom left my biological father, she moved to a new state with only her crazy parents for help (and not much at that). She had no job, two small children, and a shitty ex-husband who wiped out their savings to deal with in starting over. So the things I grew up experiencing--eating store brand food, developing a regional accent, concerns about money I had no grasp of as a child--are all things you wrote about, and thus feel very true to me in the context of the Winchesters. It's also a matter of acknowledging things that aren't normally identified from the cultural standpoint of the middle class. I can relate a lot to what you noted about Sam, because I experienced the same thing--as I grew up and my family became more financially stable, and as I moved away from home for college, my tastes changed and my wants changed in ways that divorced me from the way that I grew up; so the act of Sam abandoning four years of a more cultured palate (particularly in California, where things are far more readily available than in Kentucky, for example) is really a very notable and important character trait that fandom as whole generally passes by. Whereas my brother, Joseph, never really desired or experienced those things, and so he doesn't want them (as far as I know)--so our experiences have diverged in some notable ways. Not the least of which is that I live in England, and he lives in our hometown.

So, er. Thanks for writing about something I can identify with so strongly. You did a great job.

SA -thanks for pointing nutty's post out!

Really excellently done, nutty. (I'm still reading it.)

One of my personal connections to SPN is that I grew up moving around alot with a father who (apparently) couldn't keep a job for more than a couple of years. I think that we are on the lower limits of the middleclass - the educated poor. We are/were also the poor relations on both sides of our families. (I'm recalling Dean's attitude about his mother's uncle in CDPWDT - I wonder what sort of interaction he and Sam had with their extended families while they were growing up.)

Thanks, SA. Glad to know that worked. And, like, all that stuff is subtle -- matters of taste, e.g., are always subtle -- but it's got to be there or the milieu isn't plausible. On the screen, the show can occasionally get away with a rough gloss and no details, but in fic, details are all you've got to create a sense of realism.

(Should you want to do that.)

The downside of writing up that series is that now every media product I consume, I always notice the teeth of the characters on the screen. Everybody in Hot Fuzz ? Bad teeth! I mean, they're in Britain, so that's normal.

Isn't there a generational difference in British teeth too?

Everybody in Hot Fuzz ? Bad teeth! I mean, they're in Britain, so that's normal.

That's becoming considerably less true with, say, my generation. Dentists are still far fewer than they are in the states, but most kids growing up around the same time as I did had just as much access to (free!) dentists, and therefore teeth quality has improved enormously in the last twenty years. It may yet happen in the lower class that dentition is neglected, but there's considerable school oversight and dental practices are part of the NHS, so anyone who has access to the NHS will have access to dentists. Maybe with a waiting list, but definitely access.

And, like, all that stuff is subtle -- matters of taste, e.g., are always subtle -- but it's got to be there or the milieu isn't plausible. On the screen, the show can occasionally get away with a rough gloss and no details, but in fic, details are all you've got to create a sense of realism.

Ah, but when it's done right, it's done so right!

That's becoming considerably less true with, say, my generation.

Oh, I'm sure dentist-access is better. But, like, in Britain, it's not weird for an actor to have crooked and slightly gray incisors. I don't think orthodonture is nearly as common on your side of the pond, and I'm downright pleased that it's not compulsory to be considered worthy of being filmed.

(Especially considering I had orthodonture, and still don't have completely straight teeth. Wisdom teeth, how I hate you.)

Nodding like a bobblehead at SA's post. My experience is similar, coming from Depression-era parents who felt victorious at having clawed their way into blue-collar class, and had no truck with their cuckoo's egg child's airs and graces, wanting college and travel and experiences outside church and home.

Having that laid out, all in one place all logical-like, was really helpful in identifying and sharpening focus on the things that separate the two brothers from each other, and both of them from the society they protect, and which Sam at least professed to want.

I always notice the teeth of the characters on the screen.

You've ruined me. When I watched Lost this week, all I could think about was Mr. Kwon's nearly perfectly straight, white teeth when he's supposed to be a poor Korean fisherman. The teeth mesmerized me.