Reynolds, I'm a dangerous-minded man on a ship loaded with hurt. Now, why you got me chatting with your peons?

Womack ,'The Message'


Buffista Movies 4: Straight to Video  

A place to talk about movies--old and new, good and bad, high art and high cheese. It's the place to place your kittens on the award winners, gossip about upcoming fims and discuss DVD releases and extras. Spoiler policy: White font all plot-related discussion until a movie's been in wide release two weeks, and keep the major HSQ in white font until two weeks after the video/DVD release.


§ ita § - Jan 08, 2006 6:27:07 am PST #9716 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Do you think Twist was a predator? And do you think having gay kids automatically confers credibility?


Matt the Bruins fan - Jan 08, 2006 6:44:41 am PST #9717 of 10002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Given Cheney's example, I'd say that's a big no.

Refresh my memory... doesn't Ennis actually initiate things? And just about break the front door down in his eagerness to get going on all those "fishing trips"? While Jack Twist takes the moral low ground for running around on his wife, I don't actually see anything he directs toward Ennis being objectionable unless one has a blanket objection to homosexuality in general.


Cashmere - Jan 08, 2006 7:12:07 am PST #9718 of 10002
Now tagless for your comfort.

There's a HUGE difference between "pursuer" and "predator". Just because Jake was more agressive in pursuing the relationship doesn't make him predatory.


bon bon - Jan 08, 2006 7:12:09 am PST #9719 of 10002
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

I think Jack pretty much initiates, but Ennis never really objects; and he certainly could have. But in any case, I doubt Shalit said the same thing about, say, The English Patient, or dozens of other movies about straight men pursuing reluctant women. Which is not to say that I think Shalit is necessarily homophobic, just oddly hypocritical here.


Kate P. - Jan 08, 2006 7:57:18 am PST #9720 of 10002
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

While Jack Twist takes the moral low ground for running around on his wife

Ennis is married too, at least for the first several years of their relationship.

Jack does initiate the first sexual encounter, but Ennis doesn't need any convincing, and I believe he's the one who comes to Jack the next night. Plus, as Matt says, when Jack comes back into his life, he's all too eager to continue the affair. There is a scene in which Ennis says (paraphrasing) "I wouldn't be like this if it weren't for you," but I doubt we are intended to take that as fact. So I hardly think that "predator" is the right word to describe Jack. It's a strange thing for Shalit to say, but I think GLAAD is strongly overreacting.


Jessica - Jan 08, 2006 8:01:17 am PST #9721 of 10002
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?

Ennis is married too, at least for the first several years of their relationship.

And she's the one who ends it, so it's not as if he takes the moral high ground there.

There is a scene in which Ennis says (paraphrasing) "I wouldn't be like this if it weren't for you," but I doubt we are intended to take that as fact.

Ennis is deeply self-hating, and he takes it out on Jack.


§ ita § - Jan 08, 2006 8:04:11 am PST #9722 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Hell, Ennis was engaged when he fell in love with Jack. He was already cheating.

I accept the power of what happened, and the intractable position they found themselves in (considering their personal limitations), but Twist as predator is weird. In fact, what I read of the review just sounded plain weird.


§ ita § - Jan 08, 2006 8:15:56 am PST #9723 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

And I don't think of Ennis as self-hating as much as I think of him as extremely weak, and scared. I think he'd be okay with being out, if he could believe they wouldn't pay such a high price for it.

And he's kinda maybe proved right in the end--but that doesn't mean that he made the right choices between the start and the finish.


Kate P. - Jan 08, 2006 8:28:41 am PST #9724 of 10002
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

Although we don't know for sure what happened to Jack; I get the impression (from the story as well as the movie) that Ennis believes that Jack was killed by gaybashers, but there's no confirmation that that's anything but his own fearful imagination. It's certainly plausible, but it's left intentionally ambiguous.


Jessica - Jan 08, 2006 8:31:17 am PST #9725 of 10002
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?

It's certainly plausible, but it's left intentionally ambiguous.

That was my impression as well. In the film, it's deliberately left open as to whether those scenes are in Ennis' mind, or Anne Hathaway's memory (or both).