And let's make it a three-fer.
Well, there is "I am different and you exclude me, that isn't right" and then there is "I am Superior and you don't acknowedge that, that isn't right." The first, you'll get school assemblies about in the sixth grade. The second, you'll write papers about while studying Nietszche.
Can you explain your second example?
Not Nutty, but the Nietszchean overtones of many superhero comics are pretty well covered by college students. For
The Incredibles
in particular, as one review1 puts it, "The strong, the movie suggests, should be allowed to thrive outside the false laws and values of the weak, acting according to their own superior, self-generated code."
The applicable passages from Nietszche would be from his writings Beyond Good and Evil and Thus Spoke Zarathusa. From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy ( [link] ) "Nietzsche believes that living things aim to discharge their strength and express their "will to power" -- a pouring-out of expansive energy which, quite naturally, can entail danger, pain, lies, deception and masks. As he views things from the perspective of life, he further denies that there is a universal morality applicable indiscriminately to all human beings, and instead designates a series of moralities in an order of rank ranging from the noble to the plebeian: some moralities are more appropriate for dominating and leading social roles; some are more suitable for subordinate roles. So what counts as a preferable and legitimate action depends upon the kind of person one is. The deciding factor is whether one is strong, healthy, powerful and overflowing with ascending life, or whether one is weak, sick and on the decline."
And from another .edu site ( [link] ) "Superman is constantly changing and in a state of rebirth and growth. He determines what is good and what is evil, not allowing religion or society to determine these things for him. The Superman finds his happiness in this way. He uses a reason that is independent of the modern values of society or religion. He determines his own values. This creation of his own values gives him joy. He feels that human compassion is the greatest weakness of all because it allows the weak to restrict the growth of the strong."
Please note, I'm not presently arguing anything about connections between Nietzsche and The Incredibles, but others have, thus Nutty's comment, I presume.
1The full quote:
And, precisely as Nietzsche told us, the only weakness of the strong in The Incredibles comes from their decision to allow themselves to be hemmed in by the artificial constraints created by the weak. >Superheroes in this world are ordered to blend in, to hide, to not stand out -- and the movie's message, again in line with Nietzsche, appears to be that this is unambiguously wrong. The strong, the movie suggests, should be allowed to thrive outside the false laws and values of the weak, acting according to their own superior, self-generated code.
Born a superhero? Be a superhero.
Not born a superhero? Get out of the way.
Gerry Canavan, BackwardsCity [link]
In non-superhero news, we watched Harold And Kumar Go To White Castle last night. Funny movie, and I totally called the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern shout-out. One thing bugged me - there were no women characters, just sex objects. I know that H & K's life is set up as woman-free, but there were enough opportunities for random interaction. So that was annoying.
Other than that, I laughed my ass off, and I would definitely see either a sequel or the Adventures of Manny & Shevitz.
Oh, I think the girls in the bathroom moved beyond the sex object role pretty quickly, though I wouldn't call them three-dimensional characters.
I didn't get this from the movie.
Until Kari starts showing him the flashcards and playing the Baby Einstein-like music, noone thinks Jack-Jack has powers. It just kinda struck me as funny. Especially when Joe started showing Em the same flashcards and saying, "Come on Em! Be a superhero!"
The impressions I have from the movie, in general, are inferations (is that word?) on my part. I don't deny that. I was talking to Joe last night about thinking there's something wrong with me that I don't get the "hidden agendas" and "underlying messages" in certain movies that a lot of people do. I just enjoy them for what they are, because they're entertinment to me and not something that I worry about "what it's saying". There's very little in movies and tv shows that ping any of my buttons. I leave that to the real people. Heh.
Not to say that there's something wrong with people who do see the hidden messages and agends in tv and movies. It's just a difference in watching them.
It certainly looked, from the scene where he looks at all the memorabila in his "I Love Me" room, that he wanted the glory and the admiration.
Would you say the same of an actor who had their movie posters up in one room? I used to have the posters of the shows I was in on my walls in my living room. I saw that he had this room, that wasn't the main part of the house, as his refuge. Where he could go and just be him. Not worry about what he couldn't be or had to be. I don't think he was a great guy. I saw him as very flawed. He broke the law by sitting in a car with Frozone and a police radio, trying to help where he could. And I don't think he was completely altruistic, either. Maybe he started out that way, but eventually, I imagine the fame and the glory got to him a bit and he really missed it when he was forced to live a non-Super life. But from what I saw and how I digested it, he doesn't lose it because he's forced to sit in a cubile. He loses it when he's not able to help someone getting mugged.
I understood from the X-movies that the idea that mutants were superior to normals was the bad guys' stance, not the X-Men's stance. It also seems to me that super-smart characters have been good guys in the X-verse (Professor Xavier, Beast), not just bad guys.
But isn't that the same stance Syndrome has? Syndrome took the "Mr Incredible doesn't want my help" to equal "Mr Incredible thinks non-Supers are below him and Supers are superior". IIRC, again, none of The Incredibles say that they are superior to non-Supers. Helen tells Dash in the car that everyone is special. Dash's response "that's just a nice way of saying noone is special" was, to me, a typical child's response when they are told they can't do something they want to. As far as the brain power = bad guy message, I didn't get that from this. I saw it as "jackass gets his due".
I agree that the message was that you shouldn't try to be something you aren't. By that argument, slaves should stay slaves, minorities should stay disenfranchised, women should stay out of the workforce, the lower classes should never aspire to the educational and economic means of the upper classes. It's a very conservative and elitist world view.
Not at all what I meant. I don't get why it's a bad thing to be in touch with your own limitations. I will never be a champion runner. Never. No matter how hard I work out and run and practice. I will never play a musical instrument in a professional capacity. That's not to say that Syndrome couldn't have been a Superhero without powers. Batman is. As a matter of fact, he's my favorite Superhero because he has no powers. But again, it's about choice to me. Syndrome could have made the decision to be "good". To use his brain power for "good". He
CHOSE
not to. He
CHOSE
to make his life's work defeating Supers, in particular Mr Incredible. Syndrome killed off a lot of Supers simply because they were. And yet, THAT never gets addressed in (continued...)
( continues...) the movie.
The movie, was, to me, when I delve into this deeply and think about it, about choice. Syndrome chose to take his brain power and be a dick. Why and how does that make Mr Incredible responsible? Why does the blame get tossed on him?
I don't get why it's a bad thing to be in touch with your own limitations.
God, yes. You can't be anything you want to be. Even if the rules allowed, your body and mind won't.
How is that elitist or conservative?
Full disclosure: I don't believe all the kids should get medals either. It's useless.
(I'ma big dork, I've never had apost run over into 2 before. Hee.)
