This must be what going mad feels like.

Simon ,'Jaynestown'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


chrismg - Jan 23, 2012 5:26:40 pm PST #8477 of 10459
"...and then Legolas and the Hulk destroy the entire Greek army." - Penny Arcade

There are so many meta considerations who knows what makes it to the screen.

This. Particularly one I don't see mentioned much, TIME. We sit here with all our leisure time devoted to dissecting the story or the performances, and the writers and actors have such a limited period to come up with it..... If you listen to the commentaries and such, there's a lot of places they say, basically, "We ran out of time and just threw shit together." Sometimes it works (Hello, "Conversations with Dead People") and sometimes it just doesn't.

That's one reason I can never get behind saying, if they'd done it THIS WAY, everything would have been better. (And I realize I'm saying this in the presence of authors of a "Spiral" rewrite.) It's just so hard getting something even halfway decent to the screen, I can't feel comfortable doing anything beyond pointing out where it didn't work FOR ME.


§ ita § - Jan 23, 2012 5:35:05 pm PST #8478 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I feel lucky to have been able to listen to actors and directors go off the record with what they might have wanted to do, in contrast to what we saw.

I can rail against someone's intentions when I can't see any way there was something material that got in the way of the decision (like you'll never convince me The Show didn't think Spike should try and rape Buffy), but there's a definite limit to me even knowing where to point the finger when something changes canon in a way that displeases me.

I have seen so much internet screaming and kvetching when I know more about why it went down that way, and they people they want to draw and quarter are the wrong people entirely. I try not to be hypocritical (I certainly don't succeed, it's impossible, but I try, and hard) knowing that.

I wonder, if Joss had sat down to write a book of the story of Buffy, where he would have gone. If he had no boundaries of cost or FX or acting limitations, what would we have gotten? And what would we have gotten without fan feedback, and amazing acting performances, and writer's room collaboration and killer stunt choreography...who even knows?


Polter-Cow - Jan 23, 2012 5:39:51 pm PST #8479 of 10459
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

If he had no boundaries of cost or FX or acting limitations, what would we have gotten?

Judging by Season 8...something terrible?

And what would we have gotten without fan feedback, and amazing acting performances, and writer's room collaboration and killer stunt choreography...who even knows?

It's such a collaborative process. I am thankful for everyone involved.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jan 23, 2012 9:35:54 pm PST #8480 of 10459
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Judging by Season 8...something terrible?

It's funny 'cause it's true.


Polter-Cow - Jan 25, 2012 1:47:51 pm PST #8481 of 10459
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Aw, lots of love for "I Only Have Eyes for You" over on Mark Watches. I don't often think of it when I think of my favorite episodes or, in general, it seems, but it is a really great episode.


DavidS - Jan 25, 2012 5:02:13 pm PST #8482 of 10459
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

but it is a really great episode.

It's both a great standalone and great in the season arc. One of Marti's best.


Sophia Brooks - Jan 25, 2012 5:04:50 pm PST #8483 of 10459
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

Christopher Gorham was really engaging too-- it was the first I saw of him.


Polter-Cow - Jan 25, 2012 5:15:30 pm PST #8484 of 10459
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Wait, what, he was in that episode?? So was John Hawkes, apparently.

It's both a great standalone and great in the season arc. One of Marti's best.

I love the mini-horror movie aspect of it. Classic ghost story.


DavidS - Jan 25, 2012 5:16:25 pm PST #8485 of 10459
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Classic ghost story.

With a twist!


§ ita § - Jan 25, 2012 5:43:58 pm PST #8486 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Wait, what, he was in that episode??

He was that episode.