A year and a half ago, I could have eviscerated him with my thoughts. Now I can barely hurt his feelings. Things used to be so much simpler.

Anya ,'Dirty Girls'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


Typo Boy - Jul 20, 2008 6:19:11 am PDT #6295 of 10467
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

but a lot of the things you point out are kind of par for the course for the genre.

I've seen a lot of musicals - but normally:The music is of high enough quality to make up for a lot. A lot musicals, say Sondheim manage fairly high ratios of wit to witlessness, and put some depth into characterization. (Many, not all) operas are more comparable in writing quality, but then they have really really good music, really really good singing, plus my opera tolerance is not really that high either. This looked to me like a case where parody was used an excuse for really bad writing. But some of the posts help me understand how it can be seen differently.


Shir - Jul 20, 2008 6:50:03 am PDT #6296 of 10467
"And that's why God Almighty gave us fire insurance and the public defender".

And I agree with what someone else wrote here earlier - the ending song is wonderfulness. Such a tight, smart production.

Seriously, when the soundtrack's out?


Kalshane - Jul 20, 2008 7:14:05 am PDT #6297 of 10467
GS: If you had to choose between kicking evil in the head or the behind, which would you choose, and why? Minsc: I'm not sure I understand the question. I have two feet, do I not? You do not take a small plate when the feast of evil welcomes seconds.

I'm with d that Penny was definitely hoping to talk to Billy again in the laundromat and if he hadn't been so busy plotting how to kill Hammer and had met up with her things would have worked out differently.

Which totally feeds into the Greek Tragedy concept that Sail brought up.


le nubian - Jul 20, 2008 7:24:49 am PDT #6298 of 10467
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

Kalshane,

and honestly, I am not trying to belabor this point because while I'm disappointed, I'm still likely to buy the DVD, etc.

But my response is: why should whether she likes Hammer have anything to do with Billy? She's an adult woman. Yes, I think she was hoping to see him at the laundromat, but Hammer is still a dick.


Laga - Jul 20, 2008 7:31:19 am PDT #6299 of 10467
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.

I think by the time the dedication ceremony was going down she knew it wouldn't work out between her and Hammer but she felt she had to pretend for the sake of appearances.


Shir - Jul 20, 2008 7:44:22 am PDT #6300 of 10467
"And that's why God Almighty gave us fire insurance and the public defender".

You know what? - yes, without Penny Hammer wouldn't help to save the building, but given Penny's sheer assertiveness, can you see her doing so on her own? I can understand why Hammer's allure was lost on Penny once the building was secured to her cause.


Kalshane - Jul 20, 2008 7:47:58 am PDT #6301 of 10467
GS: If you had to choose between kicking evil in the head or the behind, which would you choose, and why? Minsc: I'm not sure I understand the question. I have two feet, do I not? You do not take a small plate when the feast of evil welcomes seconds.

Le Nubian,

In the final laundromat scene, based on what she's singing, she's obviously having doubts about her relationship with Hammer.

I don't know if having a conversation with Billy would actually change how things worked out with her and Hammer, as Laga suggests she may have already made her decision and was staying with him for the press conference for the sake of appearances but I do think that it might have further softened Dr. Horrible's resolve to kill Hammer. He plainly has doubts right before his freeze ray wears off and if he had talked to Penny and realized she wasn't as blindly smitten with Hammer as he believed, things may have gone down much differently.


le nubian - Jul 20, 2008 8:00:05 am PDT #6302 of 10467
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

but what about the Evil Gang?

they wanted Hammer neutralized (killed, preferably) and since his aim was to get into the gang, I'm not sure that an attempt on Hammer's life would have been avoidable.

I am fine with the point of the three acts to show Horrible becoming well, Horrible. I just wish Penny's role and agency were a bit stronger.


Laga - Jul 20, 2008 8:14:05 am PDT #6303 of 10467
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.

D woke me when he came home at 2 and kept me up until after 4 watching Dr Horrible and I'm only a teensy bit mad at him. I'll get through the day with the help of coca-cola and the snippets of song that keep wafting through my head. so romantic!


P.M. Marc - Jul 20, 2008 8:24:36 am PDT #6304 of 10467
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I apologize if this sounds snippy. It's not intended to, but I've got years of discussional frustragion here, so.

yes, it's also structured like X, Y, or Z. Hell, I can read it as an allegory for various and sundry things, often quite cleverly done. The fact that one can see Dr. Horrible and totally see the morality play aspects doesn't negate the part where, especially given its roots in the common tropes of comics, it falls prey to a narrative device (common in comics) that I find disturbing. Penny's treatment is practically text book. I understand that other people may not have that as a button, but the fact that it's not a button doesn't mean it isn't THERE.