Xander ,'End of Days'
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
I'm pretty sure that almost anything said about souls on either show was contradicted later. For example:
according to Joss mythology the soul is what makes the person because when it's gone there's "nothing" of that person left.
We see a person with no soul in "I've Got You Under My Skin."
So mostly I believe the ideas I like best without worrying about consistency too much.
according to Joss mythology the soul is what makes the person because when it's gone there's "nothing" of that person left.
I'm pretty sure that almost anything said about souls on either show was contradicted later. For example:
Plus, canon in BTVS S1-3 held* that when the person is vamped, the demon takes over, and the vamp is nothing like the person was in life, but we see later that that's more or less handwaved away, based on what we saw of Liam and William the Unbloody.
*(I know it was in Dopplegangland that Willow objected to skanky, kind-of-gay!vamp!Willow, and Buffy said that a vamp is nothing like the person was in life, and Angel started to contradict that but then trailed off. [Undoubtedly to keep from making human!Willow feel skanky and kind of gay.]
So I assume that that was the point where canon got a little dodgy, with the good guys still believing the lore about the vamp being nothing like the person, but we start to see that the vamps know that ain't necessarily so. Which makes sense, really, because prior to Angel, it's not like the Watchers/Slayers/good guys actually got to know any vampires, so of course they would believe the lore.)
good point, Steph.
Steph is full of good points. She's the Good Point Girl.
I'm like a hedgehog.
I think Joss started out with all of the good guys having a very black and white view about vampires and then slowly changed that. Such as vampires can't love, and then we meet Spike and Dru. I don't think any of the "rules" set out in the beginning about the soul or vampire personalities were set in stone.
I'm like a hedgehog.
Now that's a Nelly Furtado song I'd like to hear. What would be the second line? "I can never be buggered at all"?
Yeah, I don't think that canon ever really believed that vamps were nothing like their people. Look at Jesse, way back in "The Harvest" - sure, he's sexier and eviller, but he still talks quite a bit like Jesse, goes after Cordelia, and actually talks to Xander before trying to eat him. Also, the scary religious not!Anointed in "How to Kill A Guy on the First Date".
Can you tell I'm in the midst of a S1 rewatch?
Yeah, I don't think that canon ever really believed that vamps were nothing like their people.
Early on Joss wanted to make it clear that Buffy wasn't a serial killer, so it was more important to erase the ambiguity of her kills. Later that ambiguity was what interested him.
Now that's a Nelly Furtado song I'd like to hear. What would be the second line? "I can never be buggered at all"?
Made me laugh.
it's not like the Watchers/Slayers/good guys actually got to know any vampires, so of course they would believe the lore.)
Yeah. A lot of what I choose to believe about the fictional cosmology involves ignoring what the characters tell each other, in favor of incorporating stuff we've actually seen happen. I have no problem believing that when Giles or Wesley or Willow or Random Authority says "it's like this" they're wrong. Because hey, it's canonical that they're sometimes wrong.
Especially if they're Wesley.