Dude, show not named Spike.

I wish I could block the memory of the last two or three seasons as well as you have, Matt.

Didn't we rename the spoiler thread Show Called Angel! after Buffy went off the air? Good times, good times.

I wish I could block the memory of the last two or three seasons as well as you have, Matt.

To be fair, I was mostly speaking in context of the season Spike was introduced—when he was still a major recurring villain rather than the de-facto lead, and yet did not strike me as someone Joss wanted to put in a corner.

I think Marsters has to be referring to Joss' hypothetical fear regarding the theme of Buffy, as that of Angel wasn't something he'd be particularly worried about good-looking vampires taking over.

Hi all. I asked this question over at the Other Media thread, but was pointed/politely shoved over here to ask it. Being my first question on this or any other message board I take it as a learning experiance. So...

At the risk of just busting into anyone's conversation but can anyone explain how Anya's death so completely flew beneath our collective geek radar, while Tara's death had all of fandom wearing black armbands?

It just strikes me as, well, rather unfeminist that her rather point-blank death would elicit nothing more than a "she's such a swell gal" from her, albeit, ex-fiance. To say nothing of the rest of us.

(I pointed you here so your interesting question would get a wider audience. If you look back, you will see we went off on a bit of a tangent based on it!)

I think that it didn't have the impact of Tara's in the fandom because it was played down and lacked any fallout, due to no further episodes. It got basically lost.

In many ways, looking at it, it felt like kind of a cheap death-with-purchase. While I enjoyed Chosen more than I did most of S7, Anya's death was kind of an off note, not needed by the narrative except to say, look! People we knew who had names and were not slayers have also died!

I was expecting carnage in the last episode of Buffy. Tara's death took me completely by surprise.

You raise some very valid points but I'll have to disagree when you say that Anya's death was played down. Yes, it did occur at the very end of the series but the audience was led to believe that there would be more to Anya's story due to "Selfless." A truly wonderful ep that portended so much.

But next-to-nobody got any more story for a long time, so it was less of a loss. I would also be tempted to say that fandom was mourning the show as a whole, and so Anya's death was overshadowed by that.

Three other points:

• Also, I think the "Dead Lesbian" thing was, in fandom, a big factor.
• And that Anya was, for a lot of people, a lot more problematic, as a character, than Tara.
• While her story could easily have been continued, her story was, in some way, resolved. Even her death was organic to her own story (whereas Tara's was much more about other people's stories).

Anya's death was kind of an off note, not needed by the narrative except to say, look! People we knew who had names and were not slayers have also died!

Back when I was still a bit of a spoiler hound, the meta on Anya's death was that Emma Caufield volunteered to be kicked off if they wanted as she had no interest in continuing on in the Buffyverse in any manner. I don't think there were any plans before that, so, yeah, her death was kind of shoe-horned in. It wasn't played down, but it definitely didn't have the impact if would have if they'd had her die in Selfless or at some other point where there could have been some fallout from it.

Also, Anya really died in a moment of triumph, whereas Tara was collateral "sucks to be you!" damage.