May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Mal ,'Bushwhacked'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


Cass - Oct 03, 2005 10:23:41 pm PDT #2120 of 10459
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

Post tease.


Volans - Oct 10, 2005 4:40:15 am PDT #2121 of 10459
move out and draw fire

What's Faith's last name?


Topic!Cindy - Oct 10, 2005 4:48:26 am PDT #2122 of 10459
What is even happening?

Raq, according to slayerverse.org, [link] --Faith's last name is Lehane. I think I have read that somewhere else, before. There is some dissent at Whedonesque [link] -- but if you scroll down, you can read Joss confirm Lehane


Volans - Oct 10, 2005 5:10:11 am PDT #2123 of 10459
move out and draw fire

Cool, thanks Cindy. All I was getting in my head was "NoMore."


Topic!Cindy - Oct 10, 2005 5:12:27 am PDT #2124 of 10459
What is even happening?

Okay, that's funny. She will be Faith NoMore to me, for ever more (evermore?).


Topic!Cindy - Oct 10, 2005 9:06:17 am PDT #2125 of 10459
What is even happening?

Well, as of last night, we've gotten through BtVS 5.22, that is, episode 100, that is, The Gift, in our plans to completely re-watch BtVS.

I thought someone here said the "Previouslies" for The Gift were included as an extra, somewhere on the DVD. I couldn't find them. There is a "Season 5 Storyline" feature, or summat, and at the beginning of it, it shows a similar-in-style flash of clips, but they're all from the fifth season. I didn't watch the entire feature all the way through, though. Am I misremembering? Does anyone know if I can see the whole 99 episode Previouslies on the DVD? Watching The Gift without that 99 episode flash of clips is just wrong. Someday, I hope FOX does a deluxe DVD release, with added features. If they include the previouslies right in at the beginning of The Gift, I know I'll buy it.

The episode still breaks my heart. During the original broadcast of season 5, I had no problem accepting the Summers' blood/Monks made her from me hand-waving. I expected more foundation, but by the time "Blood Ties" aired, I knew what was coming, and was surprised at the disappointment (this was among Bronzers, I wasn't even lurking with the Buffistas then) when the season was over. I somehow knew for most of the season that Buffy would end up dying in Dawn's stead. It just made narrative sense to me. Expecting it all along made me miss how poor the set-up was. Re-watching season 5, with everyone's objections in mind--seeing it all laid in the space of a few weeks--I see the gaps.

Because it worked for me the first time though, it continues to work for me, despite those gaps. I'm glad of and grateful for that. I didn't want that taken away from me. That Olaf--a being created by Anya--is elevated from Troll to Trollgod bothers me more than "The monks made her out of me."

I do also think there's a lot to the theory I mentioned upstream--the speculation that the monks created or used Dracula to get some of Buffy's blood. If I recall correctly, the monks were Romanian, right? Of course, I also don't hate Kramer's portrayal of Glory, or Charlie Whazzizname's Ben, so I already am an odd duck.

We finished watching The Gift on the early side of last night. I asked Dh if he wanted to start Season 6. He got out the DVDs, and then said, "Oh, I hate this episode," (meaning Bargaining). He wanted to skip it. I know what he means, but I don't know how many times we've decided to watch all the way from Welcome to the Hellmouth through Chosen, and then backed out, so we pressed onward. We both fell asleep, though, so that will probably start tonight.

Today on lj, someone wrote about hesitating to continue on in a story s/he'd loved so far, and also hesitating to revisit once well-loved stories. The post really spoke to me, because this is how I feel, staring down seasons six and seven of BtVS. I love the series beyond reason. I have so many conflicting feelings about seasons six and seven, though. Some of those are in response to weak spots in the show--either the plots or the execution, and some are in response to how fandom affected me during those seasons. I don't want to lose my Buffy-love. I don't want to revisit the days that I let fandom frustrate me, either. I won't even go into the roadblocks I've hit re Firefly and Angel, here, but I have many of the same problems re-watching them, and have never even attempted to watch all the way through, because I have less faith in my love for them than I have in my love for BtVS.

A handful of spots in The Gift still stand out for me. Buffy's absolute refusal to kill Dawn no matter what ("Then the last thing she'll see is me protecting her") epitomizes everything I love about her, and reminds me of my Hero v. Champion theory that I put out, before A:ts completely ruined the word "Champion" for me. And, as much as I love Buffy for refusing to kill Dawn, and being unable to kill Ben, I love Giles for resolving to do (continued...)


Topic!Cindy - Oct 10, 2005 9:06:21 am PDT #2126 of 10459
What is even happening?

( continues...) one or the other. I particularly love his killing of Ben.

Another meaningful moment, that still brings me to tears, is the moment in which Tara's mind has been restored, and she and Willow are reunited. I am still touched by Spike's monster-man discussion with Buffy, too. Finally, some of the initial impact of Buffy's death, and the Scoobies' reaction to it has, of course, worn off over time and multiple viewings, but it is still a perfect story for me--a story I completely believe. By the time I saw Buffy's headstone last night, I was comfortably convinced that I will never be completely over BtVS, no matter what.

That's what I'm telling myself as we move towards season six and seven, anyhow.


Sean K - Oct 10, 2005 9:13:42 am PDT #2127 of 10459
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

I particularly love his killing of Ben.

"She's not like us...."


Volans - Oct 10, 2005 9:16:25 am PDT #2128 of 10459
move out and draw fire

I'm not likely to rewatch anytime soon, and it's been years - why did Glory allow Ben to be killed? I can't remember if there was a reason that she couldn't manifest then.


Matt the Bruins fan - Oct 10, 2005 9:36:43 am PDT #2129 of 10459
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

It seemed as if all the hits she'd been taking sapped her strength enough that she couldn't maintain dominance over their shared form.