I thought it was not surprising, but still a bit jarring, that the Angel Spike seemed so different to me than the BtVS Spike. Different writers, of course, but the vibe was...off. Or something.

I think Spike was forced onto the Angel series. My memory of it is that the WB pretty much made hiring JM a term of renewing the show for season 5 (along with all the glass and light; and more stand alones). I don't think Mutant Enemy wanted to let Spike take over the show, or outshine the hairloaf on his own series, and so they made him a little different. I think it worked okay. I wasn't upset he was on there, though.

I also didn't think the Angel writers got the Buffyverse. That's largely okay. Angel stood on its own merits. It was a show featuring adults (as opposed to just out of high school young adults), and was darker, and less mythic/fairy tale feeling. But there were times I thought they mishandled part of Angel's own mythology (making Angel and Angelus into almost two different characters, and somehow, Angel got stupid, which he never had been on BtVS). I also think most of them couldn't write Cordy, for all the tea in China. It was a relief that Fury penned her swan song. She actually talked like Cordelia.

Cordy was Cordy until the end of S2, and with a lot of the same writers who were writing Poddeila.

The combination of an inorganic plot development WRT Cordy/Angel and the subsequent overstretching of the actor's range killed Cordelia as we knew her.

I wasn't upset he was on there, though.

Me, either. As I said, I liked Spike, and still do. And I actually really liked the last season -- much more than the Jasmine/Connor/Poddelia (as Plei called her -- hee) fiasco.

But there were times I thought they mishandled part of Angel's own mythology (making Angel and Angelus into almost two different characters, and somehow, Angel got stupid, which he never had been on BtVS).

Yup. But even so, I think Angel -- or the idea of Angel as a character -- changed even on BtVS. The Angel of the first few episodes (not to mention the Darla) was remarkably different than the Angel he turned out to be.

I can't complain, though. I can't imagine writing an ongoing series, with a team of writers, and having it come out anywhere near consistent. Which, for the most part, aside from a few missteps (Angel hanging with the Rat Pack?!), ME managed to do. When you're not sure if you're series is going to stay on the air, or any idea of how long, it has to be tough to figure out what you *don't* want to do with a character in case of future developments.

I miss Angel. Much more than BtVS most of the time, at least lately. The last season worked really well for me, and it still felt like there was a lot of story left. Whereas, even though I'm one of the few who managed to enjoy S6 BtVS, the last season of Buffy disappointed me nearly every episode. It wasn't at all what I would have done with the final season, not that anyone asked me, and I felt like I didn't know the characters anymore.

Still cried during the last one, though, because I am just that big a sap. (And, to be honest, was also pregnant and hormonal and weeping during laundry detergent commericals.)

Edited to add words that should have been there in the first place.

As crappy as the whole Jasmine story line was, the scene with Angel and Conner singing Oh Jasmine was comedy gold.

I miss Angel too, but then I tell myself it could have dragged on for two more years like Buffy did and completely pissed away any love I felt for it. I think it's better things turned out the way they did.

S5 was my least-loved season of Angel, but I still miss the show.

If S5 had ended with 5x18, it would probably be my second fav season. I just thought the Big Bad Arc was really quite incredibly lame, and that the last episode was a bunch of interesting moments that didn't add up to more than an eyeroll.

I have strong opinions on very silly things, I know.

How about if it ended with Wesley not pulling the trigger in time in 5x19 because it was Fred's face he was looking into?

What Plei said. The first 3/4s of S5 had some amazing shows. The remaining ones felt thrown together and unfocused, even if they had some good moments.

How about if it ended with Wesley not pulling the trigger in time in 5x19 because it was Fred's face he was looking into?

Nah. I think 5x18 ended it on a perfectly fine note.

Though your ending still works better than the real one. Dragon, my big white ass.

I think I cut the end of the season a lot of slack because I knew it was ending. I mean, the last scene of the last ep was just...silly. No way they're walking away from that.

In all, it seemed like a decent Big Bad that should have been planned better, and given more time to develop. The execution of it was definitely haphazard. But I still like the idea of taking on the Senior Partners, even if the way it shook out was not very satisfying.