"Clowns? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too--entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in."

That was a fantastic line.

Teal'c and Bra'tac have excellent senses of humor, but their dialogue with other Jaffa is all "We, we men of honor, doing serious and honorable things, speak with the seriousness of our noble ancestors (the Goa'uld's murderous thugs, that is, but don't get me started on that) and use no contractions, that we may show ourselves to be more serious."

Yup. I like individual Jaffa, but their overall storyline is blah.

I have a silly BSG question: what is the point of assassinating a leader if you're not sure how his followers will react? I think that's a stupid plan for both people.

Because, okay, Michelle Forbes clearly thinks she has a perfect handle on her people, and the Commander thinks his people are loyal to him (and more to the point, loathe Michelle Forbes). So, given that these hundreds of soldiers with guns have already had the opportunity to point them at each other, what makes either leadership think that its counterpart army will just quietly accept a violent takeover?

And, if you're gonna have a riot (to say nothing of a full-scale rebellion), do you really want a riot performed by people with combat training, who have access to lots of weapons? That way lies expensive CGI and flames, I think.

I think those plans needed a lot more forethought, and a lot more people (especially on Michelle Forbes's side). Doesn't anybody watch Crimson Tide any more?? The little yappy dog in that movie could come up with a better plan!

Cain thinks that Adama's people are weak and will follow her. Adama thinks that Cain's people are oppressed and unhappy and will follow him.

And at this point, I think they're both so worried (and quite reasonably so) that the other is going to assasinate them that they can't wait for a better plan to emerge, they have to do it now.

Cain thinks that Adama's people are weak and will follow her. Adama thinks that Cain's people are oppressed and unhappy and will follow him.

Both of those people need to be kicked in the butt by a psychologist. Also possibly a tactician, and after that the line starts with the people who are being sent in on an assassination mission without anything resembling an escape plan afterwards.

There are so many ways that the assassination plans are dumb -- where to start! Rafik al-Hariri is smirking in his grave.

What I find interesting about that last scene is that Cain, who's been painted as the evil hardass, uses the euphemism "relieve Adama of his command," while Adama, the kind paternal commander, is the one to spell out "shoot Admiral Cain in the head."

I think Starbuck has the better mission here -- Adama knows that Cain's current XO was promoted via her killing the last one, so at least on Pegasus, shooting someone in the head has precedent as a method for demoting them.

The clown reference logic going: He's referencing Send in the Clowns! It's from a musical! John must watch musicals! Therefore he's gay!

Oh, no. No misusing the Sondheim like that. Just...no.

What I find interesting about that last scene is that Cain, who's been painted as the evil hardass, uses the euphemism "relieve Adama of his command,"

Didn't she say "terminate Adama's command"? Still a euphemism, but a lot clearer as to intent.

Didn't she say "terminate Adama's command"?

Oh yes, you're right. (And in the podcast, Ron Moore actually makes a point of saying that, yes, it's an Apocalypse Now homage, so I feel like I should have remembered it more accurately.)

The podcast, btw, is terribly spoilery about Part 2. He tries not to be, but he can't help giving away at least one major plot point.

Cain thinks that Adama's people are weak and will follow her. Adama thinks that Cain's people are oppressed and unhappy and will follow him.

I would describe it this way. Adama's people are loyal out of love for their commander. Cain's people are loyal out of fear for their commander. Once the source of the fear is gone, the loyalty is likely gone as well. Once the source of the love is gone, people will be, if anything, more loyal to their commander.

btw, I don't think Cains ever understand Adamas, but Adamas understand Cains.

(I don't think I'm disagreeing with Jessica, just putting a slightly different spin on it.)

Once the source of the fear is gone, the loyalty is likely gone as well.

I don't know -- drop your loyalty to a particular person, sure, but a system or culture is harder to shed. There are a lot of people on that ship who are scared into submission, but there are a lot of others who benefit from the screwed-up culture of the ship -- ego-strokes, privileges, the power to be a sadist and get paid for it. (Well, if they do get paid. Economics is awfully vague in this universe.)

If removing the head, or even the head-and-shoulders command structure, of the organization were an easy way to excise the loyalty of the followers, then Iraq would currently be a lot less messy, don't you think? And Communism would have ended after Lenin's death (or definitely after Stalin's).

When you create a culture of fear, you're not just oppressing people your lone self -- you're convincing a bunch of people to help you do it, and any one of those people might see himself as your successor in the endeavor. (Which would also explain why oppressors are so often paranoid.)