'Selfless'
A topic for the discussion of Farscape, Smallville, and Due South. Beware possible invasions of Stargate, Highlander, or pretty much any other "genre" show that captures our fancy. Expect Adult Content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.
Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.
Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.
This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.
I love this episode, I do.
BUT, in spite of the near-perfect execution, and the total workability on every level as a plot device, rape as a shortcut to EVIL still annoys me on principle, and I expect more of this show.
But that's on rewatch. My initial reaction was more along the lines of "OH HOLY FRACK THAT'S NOT GOOD." The "Oh wait, I hate it when television does that" came later.
rape as a shortcut to EVIL still annoys me on principle, and I expect more of this show.
That would bug me too, but I still think this is commentary on Abu Ghraib, in which rape was used ostensibly as a military tool. With that in mind, it doesn't bug me. Not in that way, anyway.
I was most disturbed by how unbalanced the characterization was. No nuance or layering. The Pegasus crew members were either evil or intimidated.
This seemed like a very uncharacteristic episode. Not the kind of tension that this series usually brings. this just seemed like either bad writing or bad direction or both.
I agree, quester.
I still think this is commentary on Abu Ghraib
Interesting. I can see that, definitely. It's still a Thing, though.
I didn't mind how the Pegasus crew was written. I don't think we're meant to assume that they've always been that way. (Which also ties into the Abu Ghraib parallel -- soldiers under enormous pressure doing unforgiveably inhuman things. Of course, in this case, the enemy really isn't human, and how much the Cylons deserve to be treated like people is a question the show hasn't answered for us yet. Which I love to pieces.)
Jesus.
The music at the beginning was weird, but I think it was "Look, this is a light, fun episode with pop-ish music playing. Join us, won't you? It'll be fun!" Because they're EVIL.
I was spoiled, because I have no self control. And I got chills at the reveal of Six and started clapping like a jackass when Adama got ready to engage. Man oh man.
For the first time, I just don't think I can rewatch this one right away.Yeah, I have a friend in the UK and it's killing me that I have to wait months to talk to him about it. But I just emailed to say that the minute it's done over there, there's going to be a phone call. And I may not watch it again until then.
And what Jessica said. The Pegasus is just Galactica's shadow. They kept making the point that from the outside, a lot of what Adama's done is extremely questionable. And they've been alone, without any civilian influence or any authority other than Cain. I have no problem believing that a culture that's already 100% military would tip over the edge that way. And I don't mean that as a condemnation of the military in general, but in isolation, with no outside perspective? Bad Things happen.
The music at the beginning was weird, but I think it was "Look, this is a light, fun episode with pop-ish music playing. Join us, won't you? It'll be fun!" Because they're EVIL.
Heh. That music was so. Weird. Like it didn't belong on this show at all.
And they've been alone, without any civilian influence or any authority other than Cain. I have no problem believing that a culture that's already 100% military would tip over the edge that way.
Oh, that's an interesting point. I hadn't thought of that.
I have no problem believing that a culture that's already 100% military would tip over the edge that way. And I don't mean that as a condemnation of the military in general, but in isolation, with no outside perspective? Bad Things happen.
Yeah.
In the commentary, Moore points out that Pegasus has been through things equally as bad as Galactica (loosing 800 men) - he implies that this is has sorta pushed Cain over the edge.
If you look at WWII and Vietnam, you can find many cases of American soldiers committing atrocities after they've been through horriffic experiences themselves.
Also from the commentary - this ep will be the first one to have a DVD directors cut, as they had to cut 15 minutes from the version that Moore thinks is better (it still ran two minutes long).
My impression was that he had been "enlisted" at gunpoint and it was another indication of how things were on the Pegasus. For example, the Pegasus may have stripped a civilian vessel of what it needed, then abandoned it.
My take, as well.
Adama really has played fast and loose with regs, but the situation requires extraordinary measures. And yes to the theory that without a civilian influence, the military can tip "that way."
It was really difficult to sit through the smack-talking about "robot girls" and watch Tyrol's and Helo's reactions. It was gratifying, at least to me, personally, to see them twig to what was going on right then, and rush--together--to protect Sharon. It was a grueling scene to watch, and yes, I do believe it was prompted by Abu Graib, as well as other topical and political subjects.
There's no way the Pegasus' personnel's behavior could be approved or condoned, and I do think that doesn't give them any redeeming qualities. I was going to say "dehumanizes them," but that's not true. I think rather it exposes their--our--basest humanity at its worst.
I don't think the subject of rape was used lightly or without due thought and seriousness. It was harrowing, but an integral part of what the Pegasus has become in the time they have spent alone in the galaxy against an invincible and overwhelming enemy.
I admire Adama's attempting to adhere to protocol. But I cheered when he was forced to decide protocol was going to damn them all.
Michele Forbes has made a career of playing strong and often disagreeable women. She was also the ME for a couple of years on H:LOTS.
January? Damn. Can't come soon enough.