OK, request for help time, not yet beta-reading:

I've just reached a point in writing Cruel Sister where Ringan, dreaming, is seeing the murder of one sister by another. The historical scenario: the girls are of very good family, visiting the Palace of Placentia (or Pleasaunce) in Greenwich, for Henry VIII's wedding to Anne of Cleves.

What would the normal daywear be for teenaged girls of good family, visiting the royal court? The girls are sororal twins, not identical, aged nuble and just about old enough to marry in those days, say about 15-16.

And would their hair be up, or down, normally? I know flowing hair was the sign of a spinster, but did that apply to teenaged girls?

Hair would be down, I'm thinking. Elizabeth herself is sometimes shown with her hair down since, officially, she was a virgin.

I'm guessing you've checked places for basic clothing appearance. At court during the daytime, I'm thinking more ornamentation than a prosperous merchant's wife but not the profusion you see in Elizabeth's formal portraits. The stunning gowns would be reserved for the wedding itself.

Thanks, connie. I've looked at my source books and also checked some of the online sources. One of the problems I'm having is the colour schemes for the fabric. They're unmarried, gently-born Scots, there as part of the king's wedding party but it's days before the wedding. What was considered appropriate colours for girls under those circs? I don't just want to toss out kirtles and overskirts and whatnot with no backup.

The girls, BTW, have just clarified their names for me. As soon as I realised they had to be twins, they named themselves: Margaret and Cecily.

They're dressed exactly like adult women. Their hair is mostly covered by their French hoods. There isn't any particular distinction between daywear and evening wear; if you're going to Court, you wear Court clothes.

[link]

This is Elizabeth I as a teenager. Note that her clothing is no different from that you see on any of Henry VIII's queens. Note that this page has a link to a PDF discussing sources for the dress.

Girls of very good family will be wearing the most expensive clothes the family could afford.

[link]

Heh. Betsy, that was the first picture I downloaded, the young Elizabath.

But the daughters of your basic Scots laird from the River Clyde wouldn't be dressed nearly that spectacularly, surely? Not to compete with a princess royal, I mean?

I very much like this thing, but it may not be grand enough. It does look, between the Holbeins and the modern reproduction costumes, as though colour was not an issue. The girls are ginger-haired; I suspect their doting mama might well have dressed them in something like peacock blue.

Add embroidery and beading to that blue dress and you've got it. If they're going to Court, they're dressing to whatever their pockets can afford. Add blackwork embroidery to the ruffles of the chemises, too. Either the girls themselves are doing the embroidery or they're paying a servant to do it.

Color is not an issue, no. There were attempts at sumptuary laws, but primary those laws exist to show you what the upstarts are wearing that the nobles are annoyed about. The middle class has a lot of money then, and they weren't afraid to wear it.

Embroidery and beading? Kewl! Now to find the precise names of the various pieces of that costume, since I'm going to memorise the terminology as needed. I won't be using a lot of it, mind you, except to confirm that everyone saw the same thing when they saw it (simultaneous dreaming by the people who were on the site at the same time), but I want to know it.

Here's another site that might help, Deb -- [link]

terminology: kirtle describes a dress about 200 years earlier than Tudor period. Let's see ... bodice, overskirt--I don't think there are specific terms for the pieces. Stomacher! The highly decorated bit right at the front of the bodice, often moved from garb to garb depending on fashion and fortune. Pearls are the jewel of choice. Bodices are separate from skirts, and often the sleeves are detachable. And Elizabethan corsets are very straight, designed to give a very flat front, not trying to make a narrow waist a la Victorian.

Also, those fantastically embroidered skirts are two skirts. The underskirt often only had embroidery on the part that would show at front. The overskirt would sometimes have flaps that could be worn closed over a plain underskirt or tied back to show the fancy.

But now I'm wondering if I'm conflating Tudor and Elizabethan, because Elizabethan was a lot more ornate than Tudor.