I really hope this isn't an offensive question. It's just something that's mystified me for a while; I can't wrap my mind around pro-choice Catholics or gay Catholics. If the Church thinks you're evil for believing what you do or having sex with who you do, why not find a church that doesn't shit on you?

It isn't. As for why I remain Catholic, my primary interaction is with my local parish, which happens to be less dogmatic than Rome would like. The American Catholic Church has butted heads with JPII on a number of issues. I stay because it's part of who I am. I can't change things from outside the church doors.

Edit: This article is does a good job of explaining my perspective. [link]

Jen, no, it's not offensive (to me, anyway; YOMV). It's something I struggle with a lot. My understanding of the Episcopal church, which is admittedly paltry, is that they're more doctrinally ehn-maybe-this-is-literally-true-and-maybe-it's-just-a-beautiful-myth about some things that I actually do believe to be literally true (off the top of my head, transubstantiation and the Resurrection, but I think there may be more). And those beliefs are deep in me, and my participation in those rituals and remembrances and reenactments steadies me and keeps me rooted and I can't quite imagine being apart from that.

And part of it is that, dammit, I do believe I'm right and they're wrong, and I feel like if I leave I'm letting them define it; as long as I'm there, present and supporting my active and deeply community-rooted parish, the current Pope's truth about the Church isn't the entire truth.

Then there's the distance of Rome; the faith my mom taught me was always community-rooted. I love my parish; it's a cash-poor, struggling creature, but it's alive, it's active in the community.

Many of its members are activists not only because they march on the School of the Americas and are best buds with Martin Sheen and the Berrigans, but because they're feeding the hungry and clothing the naked of Berkeley year-round; standing at the gates of San Quentin at midnight on execution nights, praying for the murderer and the murdered and the survivors; walking local picket lines with grocery store clerks and the housekeeping staff at the Claremont Hotel; driving into skeevy neighborhoods on Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve to drop off goodie baskets; reading to the elderly, sitting by people's hospital beds, hosting AA and NA and AlAnon meetings; hosting venting sessions and forgiveness and reconciliation ceremonies for clerical abuse survivors.

They're such good people, and to me they are so much more the face of my faith than that old man in Rome could ever be. And I disagree fiercely with his stance on a woman's place in the world, on the value of her health and her sanity weighed against the fragile possible life in her womb, on birth control, condom use, and probably fifty other things, and I know what harm the Church's policies have done all over the world. And yet the people I actually know are doing concrete good here where I live, and bucking the establishment where they can (the pastor who blew his career by officially opposing Humana Vitae, the staff who stubbornly insist on using gender-inclusive language, the priest who sat in his study with me after my abortion and talked not about what a sinner I was, but about the difficulty of weighing a variety of bad choices in a deeply flawed world).

I love these people. They are Christ to me. I loathe much of what Rome does and I struggle with it constantly, but I can't imagine turning my back on this community.

t /Rambly McBabblePants

Thanks for that link. It's a really interesting read.

Are Catholics still supposed to believe in the infallibility of the Pope?

Edit: JZ, you ramble so beautifully. Thank you for your answer; it's very helpful to me in understanding. I guess it's sort of how I feel about the United States--I hate what it's become, but leaving feels like abandoning someone I love to a pack of wild jackals.

Are Catholics still supposed to believe in the infallibility of the Pope?

IIRC, he's infallible only when speaking ex cathedra, a very particular and rare circumstance. There've only been two ex cathedra Papal pronouncements in the last century-plus. When he's just, like, talking, he's like any other priest, but with a fancier hat.

Ah. OK, now it makes even more sense! I always thought that Catholics were supposed to believe every single thing the Pope said, even when he was mumbling incoherently in his sleep.

There've only been two ex cathedra Papal pronouncements in the last century-plus.

Both of which have been about Mary, which I find interesting.

JZ, if when I get around to moving to SF, your parish sounds like a church that I could actually be a part of. And trust me when I say that for *me* to ever consider being part of a church ever ever EVER again is a HUGE thing, and I don't say it lightly.

It sounds like Jacqueline feels about the Catholic church the way I do about being American right now. Damn it, it's MY country, too. It's where I grew up, it's where I got my beliefs about what is right and wrong, and it's my job to fix it as much as I can.

As usual, JZ says what I try to, but with more eloquence. Thank you, my dear, for putting what I feel into words.

Thanks for that link. It's a really interesting read.

You're welcome. Here's another link from that site: [link]
Scroll to question 17: Abortion and Catholicism.

Are Catholics still supposed to believe in the infallibility of the Pope?

In certain matters. When the Pope is speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals, he is infallible. Because others explain it better than I ever could, here's yet another link. [link]

edit: I knew this was going to be a x-post.

It sounds like Jacqueline feels about the Catholic church the way I do about being American right now. Damn it, it's MY country, too. It's where I grew up, it's where I got my beliefs about what is right and wrong, and it's my job to fix it as much as I can.

One of the lefty Christian bloggers I read says her attitude toward both church and country these days is, in contrast to "love it or leave it," "love it and never shut up."

her attitude toward both church and country these days is, in contrast to "love it or leave it," "love it and never shut up."

YES YES YES. Link, please, please?