And then I realize that to society, I am always going to look bad, or at best weird, and if they weren't mocking me because of my Jossness, they'd be mocking my terrible taste in shoes.

Yes. This. So very, very true.

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David Milch (and the other Deadwood writers) has this going on in spades.

Is he also responsible for the early NYPD Blue? That had a pretty distinctive speech pattern, too -- it feels Shakespearean to me sometimes.

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It's a taste thing, though. My sister likes Buffy well enough, but can't watch it because of the way they speak. I can't see her ever getting to like Firefly, since it's much more alien.

I know it can be a barrier to entry, but my experience with literary canon suggests that works which are linguistically distinct -consciously/artfully so - are more likely to endure. The reason being (generally) that works which only paddle along in the given language of their time get swept away when that time has passed. They owe too much to the cultural biases of that time. Whereas works which have a hard core of non-derivative language endure the erosion of the commonplaces of an era.

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Is he also responsible for the early NYPD Blue? That had a pretty distinctive speech pattern, too -- it feels Shakespearean to me sometimes.

Exactly!

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This is one reason why Joss' writing appeals so much to me. He's very sensitive and attentive to language in a way that few TV or Film writers are (maybe Sorkin and Palladino). He's very conscious about creating a particularly rich metaphoric bed for his work, whether it's based in an entirely made up SoCal teenspeak, or a far future amalgam of 19th century tropes / tech speak /Chinese

Yes. YES. YEEEEESSSSSSS.

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David, you've managed to both eloquently and precisely, articulate exactly why I'm a Whedon fan.

At the end of the day, it isn't about the situations (okay, except of course for that unwholesome thing for vampires I'm pretty sure I was infected with by Frank Langela back in the day) that keep me interested. I can find heros and antiheroes thick on the ground. (Ivanhoe? I'm lookin' at you)

But it IS the metaphoric world illustrated by a lyric and language that is of, and not of my time. That is what transports me. The definition of 'escapism'. I could live in those worlds. (Sometimes I'd prefer to, truth be told. I only wish people in my world spoke nobly.)

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t's a taste thing, though. My sister likes Buffy well enough, but can't watch it because of the way they speak. I can't see her ever getting to like Firefly, since it's much more alien.

I know it can be a barrier to entry, but my experience with literary canon suggests that works which are linguistically distinct -consciously/artfully so - are more likely to endure.

He did it with Fray, too, though much less (in a proportionate sense) than with the Buffyverse or Firefly. It's a fine line to walk, actually, in making a story set in a different setting use a language that's slightly altered. You need to not lose the viewer/reader with unfamiliar language, while still providing enough to give a sense that, yes, this IS a different world, whether it's set in the future or it's contemporary but in a very different setting. Farscape did that pretty well, I think.

And actually, IIRC, Mad Max (the Thunderdome one) did pretty well at that, too.

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David, you've managed to both eloquently and precisely, articulate exactly why I'm a Whedon fan.

For me, it's that and the porn.

What?

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You need to not lose the viewer/reader with unfamiliar language, while still providing enough to give a sense that, yes, this IS a different world, whether it's set in the future or it's contemporary but in a very different setting. Farscape did that pretty well, I think.

This is something I'm struggling with, in my book, right now. It's a yonks-and-yonks-and-yonks ago historical, but it's not set in an English speaking country. I need it to sound other, but still sound right.

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This is so interesting. I understand that it's a taste thing. There are people in my life who don't like anything in the Jossverse, or NYPD Blue or, or even Shakespeare (cretons!) because they don't "get it." "Why do they have to talk funny?"

These same folks invite me to watch things like Snatch and Britcoms so that I can translate for them.

What, I wonder, constitutes the difference between those who are willing (nay, compelled to) enter into a different world via its language and those who are turned off by a different world because of its language?

In my work, I specifically target people's use of words and expression of belief through their language to identify and solve problems. It's the ones who simply. can't. be. okay. with someone else not speaking the same words with the same meanings that never seem to improve.

Huh. Never before have my vocations and avocations come together in such an interesting way. This could be useful. Go watch "The Message" and call me in the morning." Only partially kidding.

And speaking of that, I gotta go to work.

Huh. This could be very interesting.

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