Can't really stop to chat, but yes, I do feel betrayed by Wash's death. As mentioned before, I accept it was very effective and really made me believe we might lose more characters which really heightened the drama of the last act.

But in an age when he can just drop a dvd into the player and watch it for the umpteenth time, having that scare the first time just isn't worth it compared to the loss of Wash to the Firefly universe.

So, why do I feel betrayed? I think it may be proportionate to my hopes. I really really hoped that the movie could be made, then maybe more movies, or better yet, a new series. But even if that all comes to pass, it'll be Firefly without Wash and that doesn't remotely resemble the show I loved.

I've had time to sleep on it, and while I still enjoyed the movie, I can't shake the wish that it'd never been made rather than see Wash torn from us (and Zoe) in such a cruel manner.

Out.

The shooting script says that in the first pass through Reaver territory, there is a corpse in the suit at the cannon. Second pass, corpse is replaced by Mal. I didn't notice at all, but maybe it only looked like Jayne? Clearly, couldn't have been, even if it was. Handwave, handwave.

The movie relationship that actually made me go "Huh?" more than anything was the one between Mal and Book. Since when was Book Mal's spiritual counselor? I know it was effective for the movie, but that one I had trouble with, much more than Movie!Simon/Kaylee. Actually, I had more trouble with Mal saying Simon wasn't crew than with Simon declaring his desire for Kaylee in what might well have been his last moments. As for Kaylle picking up the gun, I cheered for her, finally finding the will (and the reason) to get over her fear of guns after being shot. I don't think she'd have been so willing if it were real humans she'd have to shoot at.

I don't feel that MovieSimon is very different from the Simon at the end of the series, who had changed a lot since his arrival on the ship. I'm handwaving the new breaking-River-out story by saying they put her in cryo aboard the ship that got them out, maybe because she had a meltdown and Simon couldn't fix it. He didn't know what they did to her medically; evil doctor wasn't explaining that, because Simon wasn't undercover as a doctor; he was undercover as some kind of official. Simon's behavior in the lab with the evil doctor was not a problem for me, because he was essentially the same Simon we saw in Ariel take charge of an emergency and ream out an incompetent. Simon's confident enough in those sorts of situations; it's out on the Rim among the rougher folk that he's uncomfortable and awkward. And even with the retcon, he'd still never shot anyone before.

All that said, though I loved the movie, I do feel like it's an alternate Firefly universe, as others have mentioned, where things went a little different. I'm happy to see the 'verse again, the movie is good, but my private Firefly universe in my head still contains Wash. And a happy Zoe. (I read an interview, don't remember where, wherein Joss said Wash might be back in a sequel. Which has to mean that sequel would be prequel. I hate prequels.)

This would have been so awesome over two or three seasons. If I feel robbed of anything, it's that.

It was Jayne in the suit on the way back, though -- doesn't Mal give him the order to fire?

I'll go with the corpse in the suit on the way out, but they gotta say. Different error, is all.

I was pretty sure it was Mal in the suit on the way back, at least I assumed so, because I remember wondering how he got back to the cockpit so quickly. I guess I'll have to see it again.

I think the characters and the 'verse were heavily rewritten to appeal to the segment of the movie going market that sees opening night shows, and who go to movies a lot--the youth market. I think the emphasis was necessarily shifted to the younger characters: River, Simon, to appeal to that market. I think the Mal & Inara was traditionaled-up and simplified to make it more easily understood by the movie market. Simon became a superhero rather than a human who lacked the knowledge and ability of how to fight, personally, to free his sister, and River became the pivotal focus of the movie, again, as a superhero appeal to the youth market.

I didn't get this sensation at all. Mal was darker, yes. We got the Mal that Joss originally wanted for the series before Fox told him to cut it back. This is probably the only instance where Fox might actually have been right, because Mal is very unlikeable for the first half of the movie. That said, and this was discussed in spoilers, Joss and Nathan have both said that each member of the crew represents an aspect of Mal. Serenity!Mal is darker than "Serentity"!Mal who's darker than RestofFirefly!Mal. In Serenity Mal is missing two reflections of himself: Book and Inara. They are both a tempering influence for him and without their presence he reverts back further into his bitter war-veteran self. We see Mal behaving more like TV!Mal both on Haven talking to book and again in Inara's sanctuary and he's more TV-like for the rest of the movie, once Inara comes back on board Serenity.

Movie!Simon only bugged me in the respect that the opening flashback did not mesh with early Simon on the series. Movie!Simon however seemed very much in common with post-Ariel!Simon from the show. I never saw him as being a superhero in the movie, though.

The rest of the characters felt like the characters I knew and loved.

I gasped and really teared up at the shot of the pilot's chair and console with the dinosaurs and palm trees. I'd waited to see whose butt sat in that chair, and started a slow burn when it was Mal. The burn accelerated when it turned out River was flying the ship from the previously non-existant copilot's chair, and that angered me to the point that I stopped feeling sad.

Who would you have preferred take the controls? We've seen Mal at them before on the show, though after lift-off. We've also seen him pilot the shuttles. He knows how to fly, he's just not anywhere near as good at it as Wash or even Inara.

The River being able to fly Serenity did bug me, But I'm torn between them having to find a new pilot (and add a new face to the crew, which I'd rather not have happen) or having someone onboard step-up. Of the two, the latter is the better option, though I'm going to miss Wash terribly.

As for the co-pilot's station, it was there for the entire movie. I think it might have been there for the TV show, as I know Kaylee comes out from under a console on the bridge in "The Train Job" that's not Wash's, but I can't recall if it has the piloting stuff or not and a friend is borrowing my DVDs.

Movie!Kaylee eager to pick up a gun and take Reavers down felt so out of character that I think I actually tried to gouge my own eye out with my finger during the screening (since, you know, can't actually talk and bash when seated 5 rows away from Jane Espenson or one row behind studio folk).

See, this didn't bother me. She was incredibly reluctant and afraid until Simon gave her an incentive. Which, while kind of cheesy, was believable to me and I heard women in audience cheer and whoop when it happened.

I felt deeply upset and betrayed by Wash's death after my first viewing and was very annoyed with the Simon retcon but I've enjoyed the movie more at subsequent viewings. I watched it the second time because there was still much in the movie to love. It does suck to lose the show, get it back and then lose characters we love. I'm never going to finish a viewing of Serenity and feel elated like I wish I could, but it's (continued...)

( continues...) still a good movie.

I keep going over the Simon retcon in my head and I can see how Joss got stuck between the choices of showing a bunch of people that we're never going to see again rescue River or putting in a bunch of exposition ala The Train Job about how Simon paid to have River rescued, which would have been boring for new viewers and the fans alike. I wish he had found a way to manage it without making that chance, but I can't think of one myself.

I'm surprised to see all the negativity. I thought the movie rocked and I wasn't a big fan of the series. Now, however, I'm heading back through the DVDs and enjoying it. When you have so many characters, you have to focus in on a few for a 2 hour movie. They can't all be main characters. The movie was fast-paced, intelligently written, funny, sad, and exciting all at the same time. That's a rarity these days, especially for a sci-fi movie. The GF and I give it 5 out of 5 stars. Yay Joss!

My definition of 'betrayal' applied when I read the end of Ann Rice's The Body Thief. I remember literally gasping in shock and a sense of waste.

With Wash's death, I was deeply saddened that mature/happy/healthy relationships simply can't seem to survive in popular media. Makes me nuts, really.

I love the idea of the avatar taking a stake in the heart, but the gleam of that cleverness dims rapidly when I think of the 'fly 'verse moving forward, unbalanced--lacking the heart Wash's character brought to the proceedings.

Not to mention the deep undercurrent of faith lost/found/tested losing its central organizing character with Book's passing.

Where do we go from here, indeed.

eta: Oh, and I meant to mention that through all the saddness (that really did take me out of the story for pretty much the whole Reaver/Operative fight sequence), the moment that broke me was when Mal sat in Wash's chair and reached up to flip 'the three switches.'

That kind of call back does me every time. I was even looking for the big red button (tho we know it was pinched by a certain cast member).

I think it's impossible for anyone to write the characters with 13 hours of backstory immediately accessible and rewarding for newbies and thoroughly consistent with their backstory.

So...changes. In situations like Simon's retcon, it doesn't bother me, since I'm not attached, and I can write it off as a casualty of war. It's not rational, since when I'm attached, it can be a crime.

But it did have to happen. I believe that compromise was necessary, and that the existence of other movies where characters are built in the time allotted and made sympathetic, etc has little or no bearing -- this is more like a book adaptation, except the moviemaker isn't retelling, but extrapolating.

Discussing the fact that an important and beloved character had to die to make the battle worthwhile, "you buy your redemption in the blood of your kin" --shorthand, not an actual quote--made me realize that I expected Simon to die. It made logical sense to me.

I'm not wishing for that. I don't second-guess people for writing certain stories--their stories, they get to tell them. I get to read or watch and relate or not, as I can. Simon's death would have made logical sense to me, since he was most invested in River's survival. It makes perfect sense, following on that thought, that Joss would make a quarter-turn just to prove that bitch Fate is random and fickle, and smash someone else.

I don't "wish" things had turned out differently. It is what it is. I resent that River wound up flying the ship, but that was inevitable, too, given Joss' agenda.

I have Firefly. I can be content with that. Whoever loves the movie will love it, and I hope their numbers will be many.