I'm not telling my folks I'm an atheist. It would break their hearts.

I hope I'm phrasing this right, and I definitely realize that it's not the same [Edit: as previous examples], but it's much more difficult to "not tell" in a religion that demands to do a lot, on a daily basis, on pretty much each aspect of a person's life. Or, in other words, none of the people I know who stopped practicing Judaism, of any reason, could hide it, even if only for not hurting the feelings of people they care about.

Nilly, that makes a lot of sense. A person would either have to live far away, and go through all the motions every time he was around family and friends, or come clean. In the instances where people you've known have left Judaism, how has the family worked it out between themselves, and the non-practicing family member?

Fay, Gar, etc., I think this opinion piece in today's issue of The Boston Globe, probably best expresses my opinion on the hubbub surrounding "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays".

In general, I don't expect people who don't know me to wish me a happy Christmas, but am pleased on the rare occasion that it happens. I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas to use the word in the greeting, and in general, just enjoy good cheer and wishes for same, no matter the reason.

I try to wish people happiness (or the appropriate sentiment) for whichever holiday is going on at the time. This year, because Hanukkah was over a good amount of time before Christmas day, here I posted a "Happy Hanukkah" rather than "Happy Holidays" because I specifically wanted to wish well to my friends who do celebrate Hanukkah, even though it is not a holiday I observe. I didn't qualify it with "if you celebrate" this time, because it feels a little half-hearted and redundant that way (for me to do it, I mean, I don't take half-heartedness from people who choose to phrase it that way).

I did the same for Christmas here, I think. I can't remember if I wished anyone a happy Solstice, but my little filk attempt on "Twas the Night Before Christmas" was "Twas the night after Solstice," even though I only observe it as an occurance in nature, not as any sort of holy day.

If people post or say Happy Diwali, Happy Hanukkah, or Happy Solstice (or Eid, Ramadan, etc., although I don't see that here) I don't feel it is a presumption that everyone is Hindu, Jewish or pagan or whatever. I like to learn about everyone's holidays, and want everyone's special days to be happy.

So anyhow, Fay, I enjoy the "Merry Christmas" it seems to me that at least in the U.S. where it is not simply a religious holiday (assuming it's the same in UK and Canada, but don't know), but a secular and national holiday as well, although some people might take offense, it's certainly a holiday plenty of non-Christians celebrate in non-religious ways, too.

That makes a lot of sense, Nilly.

In my family, not being an atheist, or at least an agnostic, would be the thing I would have to tell/not tell.

Coffee

My father gave my mother a very Buffista like book this year. Has there already been discussion of The Dictionary of Disagreeable English yet? [link]

Hmm ita, I'm Jewish, and being wished a Merry Christmas does not offend me. On the other hand I do tend to use "Happy Holidays" (and have since I was a kid, as does my family).

In other words, though not a moderate on most issues, on this one I'm with Cindy. My feeling is that someone who is offended by being wished a Merry Christmas is looking too hard for something to be offended by. Someone who is offended by "Happy Holidays" is looking even harder.

I don't think "Merry Christmas" is a presumption of Christianity, but it is a presumption that the person you're saying it to celebrates Christmas. (So, a presumption of "cultural Christianity" in a way, I suppose. And incidentally, I just realized that I know a lot of people who grew up Jewish, don't believe in G-d, observe maybe two Jewish holidays per year, either because their parents expect them to or because they like the traditions from when they were kids, and still call themselves Jewish, but everyone I know who grew up Christian, doesn't believe in G-d, and celebrates Christmas and maybe Easter doesn't refer to themselves as Christian. I have no idea if this parenthetical note has a point. I'm not quite awake yet.)

how has the family worked it out between themselves, and the non-practicing family member?

Cindy, there's practically nothing in common between each case - it varies depending on the people involved, the relationships already in place, and so forth. The emotions can run all the way from "whatever makes you happy", through "as long as you are still a good person", until deep heart-break and emotional damage. And the actual deeds and results vary even more.

not being an atheist, or at least an agnostic, would be the thing I would have to tell/not tell.

The paragraph above, by the way, holds just as much for the reverse process (in starting practicing Judaism), as well.

In point of fact the Puritans, at least some of whom where the ideological ancestors of the Christian right, came to this country in part to escape the British practice of Christmas.

And because they were such pains-in-the-asses that it was heavily implied they get the hell out or they will learn what it really was to be persecuted...

Oddly that part gets left out at thanksgiving, too.

Much sympathy to Billytea.

Timelies,

My condolences to billytea.