Thanks Plei. The one I found most useful was this: [link] - many fewer bugs. Still had to fight to work across browsers.

And I'm still going to have to browser sniff, and use PHP or other serve side language to serve tables for browsers that don't at least have CSS 2. Don't understand how that is more maintainable than using tables in the first place.

Yeah, glish was the one I would have linked to first.

And I'm still going to have to browser sniff, and use PHP or other serve side language to serve tables for browsers that don't at least have CSS 2.

You shouldn't have to. Properly done, most of the stuff at glish degrades with grace so that users still for some reason use 4.x can get around.

It's been a couple years since I had to tweak any, but as I recall, using @import "cssname.css" for my main css and linking to the alt.css (a dumbed-down version for Netscape 4.x) worked dandy.

Except I don't think you can do columns the way I want in netscape 4x.

The idea is that the first two columns are content- equal width taking up however much the browser window will allow, and the right column is a menu column of small percent width. Can you really do that in netscape 4.x without tables?

The idea is that the first two columns are content- equal width taking up however much the browser window will allow, and the right column is a menu column of small percent width. Can you really do that in netscape 4.x without tables?

I guess the point I was trying to make is that, done properly, you have a site that works and looks logical, if not pretty in Netscape 4.x, that can be read and navigated within. No, you're not going to get the layout you want there, BUT you're also not going to potentially fuck over people using screen readers, etc, your pages will be smaller, and maintaining things is going to be much easier. (My redesign from tables to CSS yonks ago took 13 hours. My last redesign took maybe 30 minutes, and I probably paused to check my email and eat a cookie.)

Your point is well taken. And in fact with a little tweaking it looks pretty decent in Netscape 4.0. The columns size in it is with a bit two much white space, but they don't overlap. So you are right - I'm convinced. It really will be easier to maintain in the long run.

Okay, so it looks like my desktop is dying. It's about 3 years old, and it's had no problems to date.

I turned it on the other day, forgot to turn it off, and went to use it this morning and I'm getting nothing. The light for the power button is on, but the monitor isn't getting any signal and the fan isn't even running.

I unplugged it for a few minutes and replugged it in--the fan came on for about 2 minutes, kind of raggedly, and then went off. Other than that, it's done nothing. I suspect the hard drive has crashed, which would suck, since it's got my music on it.

Any suggestions? I'm sort of at a loss here.

Hmm - can you boot from a floppy or a CD?

The object would be to get your computer up long enough to make a backup.

I don't even know if I can, since I don't have a boot floppy and I can't even get the CD drive to open so I can try to load one.

This is very bad.

Well two things.

There may yet be a way to get this thing to boot. Also, to tell you the truth it sounds more like a power supply or a motherboard than a hard disk crash.

Just out of curiousity, try unplugging everything and plug it into another outlet. I once had an outlet going bad produce those symptoms.

Even in the worse case - a hard disk crash, the person who sells you your new system may abe able to mount your old hard disk temporarily as a D drive and get the data off for your.

But if it is a motherboard or a power supply, those can be replaced fairly reasonably - either permanently, or temporarily to recover your files .

t edit

Just to be clear - the "plug into a different outlet" is a real long shot. I tried it because I knew the wiring in the office I worked in was crappy. I'm suggesting it to you cause it is something free you can try. I'm pretty sure it is a power supply or maybe a motherboard. A hard disk crash usually won't prevent a CD opening and closing, or the fan running. That is good news - you can either replace the power supply and mother board or move the disk as D drive to a new computer.