I totally sympathize with all the people who have attempted to learn a different language and failed. I suspect a lot of it is because we don't really learn English properly anymore. It wasn't until I took German in high school that I even learned what direct and indirect objects were, we weren't taught that stuff in English classes. Same with the subjective case, not only are we not taught what it is, but it has virtually disappeared from usage in (American) English, I don't know about UK English. Other languages, such as Spanish, function almost solely in the subjective. I understand Argentina is particularly known for that. So, if it's not a case we're familiar with using, we can't always judge when it's appropriate to use in a foreign language. It became nearly the default for me by the time I finished my 5th semester of college Spanish. Yet, now, I can barely remember any of it. It truly is a case of use it or lose it when it comes to languages. While I was living in Spain, I never become fully fluent, but I could definitely get around and flirt with the locals in Spanish when I really wanted to. Now, I feel like it's all gone, except for when I'm drunk. Then, I speak it fluently.

While I was living in Spain, I never become fully fluent, but I could definitely get around and flirt with the locals in Spanish when I really wanted to. Now, I feel like it's all gone, except for when I'm drunk. Then, I speak it fluently.

Wow it's like you're in a movie or sitcom.

We had some Spanish instruction in elementary school and I took French in high school; German in college; and French for reading in grad school. I was never any good at any of them. I can read haltingly and can understand simple spoken sentences. I just can't produce sentences. I was in Germany about eight years ago with a friend who had also taken German in college and we found that we understood more than we expected. We just couldn't say anything. We found ourselves trying to say "I understand, I don't speak" in pidgin German.

in a movie or sitcom

Hee. The "all or nothing" syndrome, yes! I suffer from it tremendously.

Looks around for hidden camera. Wipes brow in relief at not finding one.

That's exactly it, Ginger. My reading comprehension is fairly decent in both German and Spanish, oral comprehension in Spanish better than German (but not by much), can barely speak German, but can find my way around basic Spanish when I have to.

Other languages, such as Spanish, function almost solely in the subjective.

You mean the subjunctive mood? Case is something you do to nouns, and neither Spanish nor English does much with it. And yeah, in Spanish the subjunctive is called for a lot more than in English; and its use in English has become dialect, except for formal writing.

Exactly the sort of subtlety Sun should miss, being a non-native speaker!

It became nearly the default for me by the time I finished my 5th semester of college Spanish. Yet, now, I can barely remember any of it.

When I was in Barcelona and Paris on my honeymoon, I quickly discovered that I could get around very well speaking about myself in the present tense. Any other verb tenses, and I was shit out of luck, despite having passed three years in both French and Spanish with flying colors. (Of course, I also discovered that most service people in France and Spain will switch to English if they hear an American accent, and so I could have gotten along almost as well speaking no other languages at all, which was a little disappointing because I was looking forward to the practice.)

Looks around for hidden camera. Wipes brow in relief at not finding one.

Well, it *is* hidden...

Of course, I also discovered that most service people in France and Spain will switch to English if they hear an American accent, and so I could have gotten along almost as well speaking no other languages at all, which was a little disappointing because I was looking forward to the practice.

That was the biggest difficulty in using the language. It was such a relief to be able to revert to English that I really didn't pursue using my Spanish as much as I could have.

You mean the subjunctive mood?

Yeah, that. See what I mean about not really understanding the parts of language? Insufficient instruction in English means it really fucks with your ability to learn a foreign language. I rest my case.

I agree that a few years of English lessons in school wouldn't necessarily make Jin able to speak English in any meaningful way. He might remember "Hello" and "My name is," but if he doesn't want to use them, he won't.

As a side note, I have a Korean intern right now. She was motivated enough to come to the U.S. as a publications intern, so I would assume her English is excellent by Korean standards. And she has told me that she doesn't feel her schooling was especially helpful in learning usable American English; from what she says, they spent a lot more time on grammar than on things like vocabulary and comprehension, and most English teachers are also Korean. I doubt Jin's education in a fishing village in the 70's, was better than hers in a city fifteen years later.