Sawyer isn't trying to do good. He's had very tiny flickers of it, things like giving the wallets back he stole, but they've been very tiny compared to the assholeness.

The labels on my axis are good and evil. Sawyer is not far over on the good side, but he's really doing absolutely no evil these days.

Which is kinda what I've been bitching about. I suspect the writers think they've done enough -- but they've just made him a bit boring. Less exciting than I'd hoped. Still, when written like last night (quotable lines? what new show is this) he can crackle -- but like my 'redemption' beef in general -- taken over a sequence of episodes, it's just more of the same, with little risk or amplification or change.

I like Sawyer because he's snarky and hot, and he can't do anything right except flirt with Kate. So far, we've seen him fail to pull off a con job, fail to exact revenge for his parents' deaths, fail to give the marshall a painless death, and fail to track a boar. It's not that he's a bad-boy, it's that he's so bad at being a bad boy.

Obviously villians have their purpose, but I don't get the worship of them

Well, there is patent villain worship (and of real life villains too), but if you've felt any indication of that going on here, I think you're misreading people.

Hmmm, I think I really do prefer the evil characters across the board, as long as they're not evil in a stupid or petty way. I just realized I want to see Jack descend pretty far into ruthlessness and hear Hurley say "Dude, you're creeping everyone out!"

I don't think any of us admire or respect villains, I LIKE them if they are well-written and well-acted and, okay yeah, I find Josh Holloway very attractive in the role). By like, I mean I like watching them. I certainly don't find anything in Sawyer's actions to emulate, but I don't think I gave that impression. I don't think anyone here gave that impression--the guy's a dick.

I don't get the worship of them

There's worship now? Well, surely somewhere. Not from me or anywher here as far as I've read. I niether worship nor woobify Sawyer, and the writers can't make me. I still enjoy the character in all his screwed-upitude. And I find him to be a bit too incompetent to be Eeevillll.

I was speaking generally about the worship of villians, not specifically here. The Lecter phenomena is bizarre to me.

I find villains fascinating for a couple of reasons. First, they do things that I would never do, things that I can barely think of doing, and that's a weird kind of escapism for me, a vicarious thrill. Second, they give me insight into actual real evil that exists in the world. I spent hours as a child trying to work out why the Justice League always beat the Legion of Doom and it led me to contemplating selfishness and the good of the many and blah blah blah, it's interesting to me.

Lost doesn't have any villains, now, unless Ethan comes back from the dead. Which is also interesting, ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances, though we haven't seen as much pushing of personal boundaries (eitehr towards good or evil) as I would like.

Yeah. If there weren't villains, and well-written ones at that, we'd all just be sitting around twiddling our thumbs and thinking, gee, wasn't that an entertaining night watching other people play cribbage on the shiny box.

Sawyer is a dick. An asshole. And an interesting character.

Locke is a crazy. A manipulator. And an interesting character.

So I like them. As characters. I like their actors because they're able to play that complexity and interest me.

Yeah. If there weren't villains, and well-written ones at that, we'd all just be sitting around twiddling our thumbs and thinking, gee, wasn't that an entertaining night watching other people play cribbage on the shiny box.

Well, it's good to know we'd still have ESPN2.