(In fact, I could say "Excuse me, but I don't speak German" with an apparently flawless accent, because people would be startled and think I was joking.)

That reminds me of Family Guy.

Brian: Hola! Um...me, me llamo es Brian. Ahh, uh, um lets see, uh, nosotros queremos ir con ustedes.

Man: Hey, that's pretty good, but when you say, "Me llamo es Brian," you don't need the "es," just, "Me llamo Brian."

Brian: Oh, you speak English.

Man: No, just that speech, and this one explaining it.

Brian: You-- you're kidding, right?

Man: ¿Qué?

The same thing used to happen to me in Spanish all the time. My written Spanish is excellent, the aural comprehension sucks. So, I could ask for all kinds of things fairly fluently, but then when they answered, I'd be stuck repeating, "mas despacio" over and over until they realized I didn't have a clue as to what they were saying. Five semesters of college Spanish didn't do much for me with the spoken form. Part of it is learning it so late in life (my 40's.) The older you are, the harder it is to learn a new language.

My explanation for Jin and Sun only works with the Isle of Dreams hypothesis (what you fear, what you want, what you fear you want...):

He's getting what, to his thinking, is the perfect wife: someone who he takes care of and has control over. I remember someone saying that, reading the translations of what she says to English-speakers, it really seems like she's understanding. What if the island has taken away her ability to speak English, thus making her dependent on her husband to an artificial degree (she seems like, if she tried to integrate, even with next-to-no-English, she'd be useful), which may well be a big fear for her. Her statement that she doesn't think anyone's coming would probably precipitate a move toward integrating with the group, which he doesn't want, and, therefore, the island may not allow.

I'm wondering how much control over them the island has, especially wrt decisions. Is it obligated to respect free will, or can it manipulate people (rather than just situations?)

This next bit is just me trying to talk things out for myself, so feel free to ignore. I don't think they're dead, because that only leaves one big reveal, twist, new layer, whatever. But if this is some kind of limbo-place, I want there to be evidence of groups of people being there before the French radio transmission, going a good ways back; if there was a group before, there need to have been several. Either the Island is very old or very new, other purgatories do not work for me. If the Island is a last test, decide if you get into heaven, or aliens testing or whatever, I think the idea that we make our own heaven/hell is relevant. They're creating their own tests, then maybe someone is judging their responses. Or maybe it's just a left-over that they happened upon. But, if there are connections between them, then that indicates, to me, that there's design involved. And why design this? The most ready answer I can come up with is to test these people. If it was about testing the Island, then any old group would work.

Also, I think that, once the baby is born, Claire is safe. I don't think they'll go to the "the baby is starving because Mom's dead" place.

If they divide up into opposing sides, one team with Jack, Kate, and Locke would seem to be clearly the stronger team, and those are the 3 best candidates for leadership I see, so, assuming no deaths, 2 of them on 1 team and 1 on the other. (hmmm...if it is a test, could it break down into those who are Hell-bound--ie-failing---and those who are passing. I'm just not sure of the criteria...facing your fears, maybe? In which case, I think Locke isn't passing. Jack is. Don't know about Kate.)

I think the afterlife angle could be done interestingly if it turns out that life after death is nothing like anyone's organized religion or philosophy has led them to believe. What if it's just the consciousness continuing on postmortem, and the characters' rather rare circumstances of all dying at the same moment in close proximity allows them to go on in contact with each other in a shared solipcistic landscape (whereas normally one would be left to simmer in one's own issues inside a private universe forever)?

okay, I'll bite. Why does the notion that they may be in purgatory or something make you react so negatively?

It's a narrative cheat. Like a reset of a show -- the season of Dallas that never happened as soon as Bobby stepped out of the shower.

It's a cheat because it doesn't force the writers to deal with the complexities.

I am not sold that this is a purgatory story. That said, I don't think it has to be a narrative cheat. If this is the case--if they're all in some sort of metaphysical limbo--we can't just import our own real-world metaphysical assumptions into the show's mythology. The show's mythology and metaphysics will either be cheap, or they won't.

And sure Beatlejuice may have only sustained that sort of storyline for a couple of hours. But Angel had a dead man walking for 5 years. Buffy had the dead walking for 7, and we still cared what happened to them, because in their 'verse, that wasn't the end.

I don't think they're dead, because that only leaves one big reveal, twist, new layer, whatever.

Yeah, this is part of what would bug me if they decided to go that route. Of course it's possible that they could make a purgatory-type situation interesting, but I am hoping for something less out-there. Also, it would be difficult to explain the people whose deaths we've seen since they crashed (the drowning girl, Marshall Shrapnel), if they're already all dead.

They moved on? They were figments of the living's imagination, there to teach them something? Yeah, I don't like it either.

It would be a cheat in the same way Buffy in a mental institution would be a cheat, imo.

I'd be down with the "they're all dead and don't realize it" theory if it hadn't been done in two recent movies, and therefore is probably the most common theory I've seen about this show so far (well, it and the "they're in an alternate dimension!" one). One of those two movies ( The Others) even tackled the issue of our afterlife being nothing like any organized religion or philosophy says it is. In that movie, a small group of people kept living their lives not knowing they were dead. I'd feel cheated if this show went that same route. I actually don't think Abrams and Damon will go that route, though, because generally when showrunners are so aware of a circulating theory that they actually comment on it in the media, they won't want to use it.

I don't buy it that neither Jin nor Sun can speak a word of English, either.

I think Jin is definitely fluent. Only because it's DDK.

And the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards Jack not being a doctor. Calling him "Mister" in the dialogue is a deliberate hint.

Mega meara:

IMO, what is happening to the people on the island doesn't lead me to believe one way or the other that they aren't in some kind of Limbo.

Well, I guess we just very strongly disagree on this. I understand there was pain, punishment and suffering in Dante's afterlifes, but my understanding of them (I haven't read them either) is that they happened in a place that could in no way at all be mistaken for reality.

Here on the island, people need food, water, can be injured by boars, and even die.

Those are not punishments for sins, or problems for dead people, those are all very clearly delineated problems of the living.

In Beetlejuice, we knew that the main characters were dead, and there was still some tension in the story.

That's because they were very clearly presented as dead, as soon as it happened (something that has not, IMO, been done here), and very quickly and clearly presented with a bad end they needed to avoid, even though they were dead.

But most of all....

It's a narrative cheat. Like a reset of a show -- the season of Dallas that never happened as soon as Bobby stepped out of the shower.

It's a cheat because it doesn't force the writers to deal with the complexities.

What Steph said.

And count me among the people who like Beetlejuice, but it takes more than that to offend me.

Locke has exhibited no moral ambiguity, which is Hollywood for "not a bad guy."

Methinks Gus is viewing Locke with some rather rosy glasses, but Daniel and P-C have already pointed out the lack of moral ambiguity, so I'll just tease Gus about being in luuuurve.

I like the wish-fulfillment theory of the island, but some things I can't reconcile with it. Sun seems not to be happy with her marriage. If the island were fulfilling her wishes, I think Jin would be dead.

I don't think the islands wish fulfillment is so obvious and active, like a lamp genie granting spoken-aloud wishes to a young boy.

I think, if the island is doing some sort of wish fulfillment, that it's more like granting deep, subconscious desires. Sun wanting her "husband" dead, everyone wanting off the island, and the pilot wanting to live are all conscious "gimme gimme" wishes, and I do not think the island works like that.

Wanting a chance to prove your capability, beyond the crappy opions of those surrounding you, wanting to obtain closure with your dead father.... Those are deep, subconscious desires (even though both retain conscious elements). Those are the types of wishes the island is granting (if the island is indeed doing some sort of wish fulfillment).

I also hope that Jack's not really a doctor, or he's very recently a doctor, or that he lost his license somehow, or, well, really anything to take him down a couple of pegs.

I'm still in the "lost his license" camp, especially after his conversation with his mother, in flashback. I think those were the things his mother was verbally hinting at -- the thing he did to lose his license (or prevent from completing his training, or whatever).

Deena:

seem highly contradictory to me. If he's worshipping the island, he's not a pragmatist. Also, considering his wanting to bring along his 1-900 girl on his walkabout, I don't think he's a realist at all. He's a visionary, or at least the world he sees isn't the one most other people see.

Well, I don't think they're contradictory, but I'm disagree with a lot of people here (and saying stuff that other people think makes no sense), so that's okay, but....

He's a visionary, or at least the world he sees isn't the one most other people see.

We are operating under very different definitions of visionary, then. He's certainly not a visionary in the way Fiver is a visionary -- frail, but with prophetic visions. I don't see Locke as having any kind of prophetic visions yet, and if he does wind up doing so (which he may, if he becomes a high priest of the island) I think that might automatically disqualify him from advisor to (continued...)