I know I'm a bad poet, but I'm a good man. All I ask is that... is that you try to see me—

William ,'Conversations with Dead People'


The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


-t - Nov 22, 2004 4:42:03 am PST #820 of 3301
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Because of the priesthood? Am I mixing this up, or is the surname Cohen/Kohan (today) an indication of someone's Levite heritage?

The Kohenim are the descendents of Aaron. They are a subset of Levites.

Levites (as a tribe) got no portion of land in Israel because of the Schechemite massacre, but they were also the only tribe to not succumb to the golden calf idolatry. That earned them some sort of reward, but now my brain has totally blanked on the specifics. Could be just the general priesthood thing.

But all that is well after The Red Tent.


Volans - Nov 22, 2004 4:44:46 am PST #821 of 3301
move out and draw fire

That earned them some sort of reward

"Tribe of the Month" parking space?


-t - Nov 22, 2004 4:47:46 am PST #822 of 3301
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

And a nice plaque.


Wolfram - Nov 22, 2004 5:34:46 am PST #823 of 3301
Visilurking

Because of the priesthood? Am I mixing this up, or is the surname Cohen/Kohan (today) an indication of someone's Levite heritage? Also, Wolfram--I have generally skipped over a lot of the geneologies when reading, are the descendants of the 12 tribes kept track of throughout the Hebrew canon?

What -t- said about Kohains and Levites. Although I'm not sure that they lost their portion due to the massacre since the tribe of Simon did get a portion. Nowadays a Kohain and Levite get most of their distinction during the reading of Torah, where they receive the first two blessings respectively. Kohains also have other duties and privileges like blessing the congregation on holidays from the podium, and officiating at "Redemption of the Son" ceremonies.

The surname Cohen indicates someone is from a Kohain family, but is not necessarily the case (I know two Cohens who aren't.) The same with the surname Katz which is a spoken acronym of the hebrew term Kohain Tzedek (righteous priest.) And similarly the surname Levy is an indication of Levite status.

WRT the status of the 12 tribes and lineage: first of all, there are actually 13 tribes since Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Menashe, each received a separate portion of land in Israel, and the Levites are often not referred to as a tribe. At some point, I think after the destruction of the second Temple, 10 tribes were "lost." I'm not sure what that means, except that nowadays everyone is descended from either Judah or Benjamin (not counting the Levites.) There had been some speculation about an actual tribe of Jews found in Ethiopia about 25 years ago who had been cut off from the rest of the world for over 1000 years possibly being one of the lost tribes, but I don't know whether that was ever resolved.


-t - Nov 22, 2004 6:12:48 am PST #824 of 3301
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Although I'm not sure that they lost their portion due to the massacre since the tribe of Simon did get a portion.

Good point. I'm recalling DH's interpretation of someone's commentary, so, accuracy not guaranteed.

There had been some speculation about an actual tribe of Jews found in Ethiopia about 25 years ago who had been cut off from the rest of the world for over 1000 years possibly being one of the lost tribes, but I don't know whether that was ever resolved.

They are officially recognized as Jews (whatever that means) but I don't know about the lost tribe angle. I read a review of something ( Aross the [Something] River I wanna say) that mentions some people living on the Indian subcontinent that go out of their way to make bread (they usually eat rice and not bread) every Spring so they can eat unleavened bread, also specualated to be a Lost tribe, but I just read the review and not the book so I don't really know.

Anyway, to be a little more on-topic, from what I understand, which, as noted above, may not be that correct, the traditional explanation for Rachel smuggling the idols away from Laban is that she was saving him from his idolatry. I think Diamant's version (with the women's religion not really being Jacob's religion, as such) is a bigger change from "canon" than the "rape".

Surely that could be clearer. Need more coffee.


Topic!Cindy - Nov 22, 2004 8:24:17 am PST #825 of 3301
What is even happening?

There had been some speculation about an actual tribe of Jews found in Ethiopia about 25 years ago who had been cut off from the rest of the world for over 1000 years possibly being one of the lost tribes, but I don't know whether that was ever resolved.
I know they have done Y chromosome analysis on Africans (I can't specifically remember if they were in Ethiopia or not), where they had the the same specific markers modern day Kohaines do (but not other modern day Jewish people). So, they wouldn't be lost tribes, per se. Years ago, I remember hearing some theory some [Celts or Brits, I disremember] are a lost tribe. When Werenro was introduced in The Red Tent, it brought it to mind.


Mark Eddy - Nov 22, 2004 8:46:08 am PST #826 of 3301
Here I am

WRT the Levites not having an inheritance among the tribes of Israel, and without going so far as to pick up the Bible and actually check facts, the story as I remember it is almost as lovely as the massacre at Schechem. During the Israelite's sojourn in the wilderness, Balaam of Peor (he of the ass) had the bright idea of tempting the Israelites away from the Almighty with Moabite women. When this idea began to work, the tribes assembled to address the issue. While they were talking, a few Israelites came into the encampment with Moabites on their arm, and a handful of Levites, zealous for the Lord, slew them where they stood. Because of this, God's anger was appeased and he accepted the tribe of Levi as substitutes for all the firstborn sons (human or animal) that were his due. The Levites were to be his portion, to serve him in perpetuity, and he was to be their portion, in lieu of the acreage all the other tribes received.


-t - Nov 22, 2004 8:52:15 am PST #827 of 3301
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Sigh.

That sounds right, Mark Eddy. I'm gonna quit trying to remember things, I'm not very good at it.


Katerina Bee - Nov 22, 2004 10:26:37 am PST #828 of 3301
Herding cats for fun

In fact, I find myself believing Dinah/Diamant's story on such a deep level that I want it to be true, even if it (probably, strictly) isn't.
I cried when I finished this book. Even though I was relieved Dinah's long struggle was over, I didn't want to stop hearing her voice.
The ending knocked me out. Perhaps ‘tis one of the most lovely endings I’ve ever read. I loved that Dinah blessed me, the reader, with shade and sweet water, and thanked me for attending to her tale.


Connie Neil - Nov 22, 2004 4:38:55 pm PST #829 of 3301
brillig

The ending was good, I was pleased that she found peace and joy in her life. Still, I only finished it because I would have felt like a complete poseur for talking about it in here.

For me, the theme seemed to be "a woman's life is hard, but there are joys." And I know that story. The vision of life in Egypt was fascinating, because I've always been interested in Ancient Egypt, but I didn't feel like I learned anything new or that Dinah gained any insights beyond the usual a woman learns as she goes through life.

It may be something that I've suspected about myself before. I have no real sense of myself as being part of a universal sisterhood of women. I've even been accused of not liking women very much. Red Tent was a good story beautifully told, but I felt no resonance in it for me.